Ada Wilson stealing?

[mariab]

Mark's whole general identification of the woman with the unusual first name (I can't recall it at the moment) who's married name was Wilson and who had been previously stabbed by her husband.

I think her first name was "Zoa" instead of "Zoe".

I think the death index entry I found using Mark's research is probably the right woman and not the death entry Mark originally found

And I won't shy from admitting I like the romance of thinking a would-be Ripper victim lived until the 1950's, perhaps rubbing shoulders with some of the people posting on these boards today.

So our Ada Wilson might have survived until 1950? Wow, that's something. Such a shame that she was found about not earlier than by Martin Fido in the 1980s. But she might have next of kin?

[Tom_Wescott]

Yes, that's what I meant. I too agree that Mark's research is spot on, but I likewise thought your death registry find hit the mark with age, and so forth. And I won't shy from admitting I like the romance of thinking a would-be Ripper victim lived until the 1950's, perhaps rubbing shoulders with some of the people posting on these boards today.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Debra A]

Hi Debs. You mean to say you no longer think your woman, who lived until the 1950's, was OUR Ada Wilson? What changed your mind? I rather liked the notion of her living that long.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

I had to think about that one for a bit, Tom.

I meant Mark's whole general identification of the woman with the unusual first name ( I can't recall it at the moment) who's married name was Wilson and who had been previously stabbed by her husband.
I think the death index entry I found using Mark's research is probably the right woman and not the death entry Mark originally found, yeah.

...is that what you meant?

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Debs. You mean to say you no longer think your woman, who lived until the 1950's, was OUR Ada Wilson? What changed your mind? I rather liked the notion of her living that long.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Debra A]

Hi all,

Just to clarify; the three convictions from the Criminal registers were posted by me on JTR forums and linked to from my post, Bridewell quoted them from the link, in his reply.

Mark's research on Ada Wilson was excellent and I think he probably does have the correct woman.

[JW-D]

Hi Maria,

Your research efforts are much appreciated.

Hello JWD,
Did you get the 3 Wilson convictions on Ancestry?

I don't know what you're talking about. The arrests/convictions I posted were copied from your previous post. Or are you talking about 3 additional convictions? My income is very limited--I only have access to Ancestry when I go to the local library.

In the latest issue of Ripperologist magazine (#125), Mark Ripper discusses his discovery that Ada Wilson was stabbed in a domestic incident by her estranged BF in 1891, and the plausible possibility that the same guy attacked her in 1888.

Haven't read it but it sounds interesting, yes. Plausible, yes. But that doesn't address the stream of men visiting her that Rose babbled about.

Ada Wilson's age doesn't exactly add up if one researches her. There's a possibility that she presented herself as older than she was in 1888 for respectability, for the same reasons that she presented herself as a married woman to her landlady.

Sugden doesn't give his source for stating her age as 39. Chris Scott's research presents birth dates of 1864, 1868, 1869 -- all for the same girl.

http://www.casebook.org/ripper_media/book_reviews/non-fiction/castofthousands.ada-wilson.html

That puts her in the 19 to 24 age range in 1888. Would Ada's landlady believe a 24 year-old was 39? Was she blind?

I turned up 20 Ada Wilsons born in England between 1852 (age 32 in 1888) and 1868 (age 20 in 1888) on the Latter Day Saints search engine:

https://www.familysearch.org/search/records/index#count=20&query=%2Bgivenname%3AAda~%20%2Bsurname%3AWilson~%20%2Bbirth_place%3AEngland~%20%2Bbirth_year%3A1845-1868~

Do we even know for sure that Wilson was her maiden name, instead of a married name or an alias? That would help narrow the search.

Best,
Janice

[mariab]

Hello JWD,
Did you get the 3 Wilson convictions on Ancestry?

I think it highly likely she was robbing the guy {...} who reacted by stabbing her.

In the latest issue of Ripperologist magazine (#125), Mark Ripper discusses his discovery that Ada Wilson was stabbed in a domestic incident by her estranged BF in 1891, and the plausible possibility that the same guy attacked her in 1888.

Sugden (and maybe others) stated that Ada was 39 years old in 1888, making her 28 in 1877, and age 33 when her term of "police supervision" ended.

Ada Wilson's age doesn't exactly add up if one researches her. There's a possibility that she presented herself as older than she was in 1888 for respectability, for the same reasons that she presented herself as a married woman to her landlady.

[JW-D]

Our Ada a Fence?

Quarter Sessions, Westminster, 1877
Ada wilson, Larceny from person & receiving after previous conviction.
9 months imprisonment, 4 years police supervision

Adjourned General Sessions, Clerkenwell, 22nd October 1888
Ada Wilson, Larceny receiving after previous conviction.
9 months imprisonment

Adjourned General Sessions, Clerkenwell, 19th May 1890
Ada Wilson, Larceny and receiving, acquitted.

Ada could have been robbing her "johns" and/or been a fence. The latter would result in a steady stream of visitors, male and female. But her neighbor Rose mentioned men only. What does "receiving" as used in the court record above mean? Receiving a sentence or receiving stolen goods, aka operating as a "fence," finding buyers for the stolen goods brought to her by thieves?

Even if she wasn't "fencing" stolen valuables, I think it highly likely she was robbing the guy (usually a more profitable way of making money--for prostitutes then and now--than renting out your body for a few pennies.) who reacted by stabbing her. So it didn't take any imagination on Ada's part to come up with a cover story for her landlady--she just reversed the roles.

A conviction in 1877, of a person with an existing previous conviction seems a little at odds, age-wise with the "young sempstress" described in the A-Z. Do we know, for sure, how young /old Ada Wilson was in 1888?

Regards, Bridewell.

According to Sugden, Ada was a machinist, which might be a fancy word for seamstress (often a cover name for prostitute), or it might have meant something else entirely.

Sugden (and maybe others) stated that Ada was 39 years old in 1888, making her 28 in 1877, and age 33 when her term of "police supervision" ended.

Best,
Janice

[mariab]

Until Rob decides (or not!) to post the pics, the files I've found are posted here:
http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=1316

[mariab]

I'm told they seldom have this sort of problem at The Savoy. You should ask your employers to upgrade your accommodation.

Like if they did pay for this trip, Ken. Lol. (Trip costed hardly 400-€, by the way.)

Thanks so much Debs. I'll look it up when I have proper internet in Paris, late tonight. Still can't post the sources (internet's too slow and unstable here), plus I suspect that from my camera they'd be too massive byte-wise anyway, and I don't have the software on my comp to further reduce them. Maybe Rob would post them, that is, after he's recovered from his b-day celebrations. Unless you wish to post them yourself, Debs? Or Tom?
By the by Debs, did you figure out what was the object that Wilson stole? A "mat"? As in "doormat", lol? She was such a doormat herself, that she even stole doormats?

A conviction in 1877, of a person with an existing previous conviction seems a little at odds, age-wise with the "young sempstress" described in the A-Z. Do we know, for sure, how young /old Ada Wilson was in 1888?

Mark Ripper argues that Wilson might have lied and increased her age to her landlady for reasons of "respectability". Esp. since she also lied about being married and (most possibly) being a prostitute. I read Mark's recent article (in Ripperologist #125) last night and I gotta say, he convinced me at about 90%.

[Bridewell]

Quarter Sessions, Westminster, 1877
Ada wilson, Larceny from person & receiving after previous conviction.
9 months imprisonment, 4 years police supervision

Adjourned General Sessions, Clerkenwell, 22nd October 1888
Ada Wilson, Larceny receiving after previous conviction.
9 months imprisonment

Adjourned General Sessions, Clerkenwell, 19th May 1890
Ada Wilson, Larceny and receiving, acquitted.

A conviction in 1877, of a person with an existing previous conviction seems a little at odds, age-wise with the "young sempstress" described in the A-Z. Do we know, for sure, how young /old Ada Wilson was in 1888?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Debra A]

Hi Maria.
I wondered something similar and posted some details on JTRforums a while back but was unable to decide whether it was the right Ada Wilson or not either.
At that time Mark Ripper had not attempted to identify her (which I think he has managed to do now) and I wondered if her record for receiving could have been a motive for an attack on her.

Here's the post as it contains the dates. You may be able to add more:

http://www.jtrforums.com/showpost.php?p=80640&postcount=10

[The Grave Maurice]

I'm told they seldom have this sort of problem at The Savoy. You should ask your employers to upgrade your accommodation.

[lynn cates]

good luck

Hello Maria. Thanks. Good luck with this.

Cheers.
LC

[mariab]

OK, the internet in this f*cking Hotel works only intermittently tonight, from the lobby, and I'm not spending the rest of the night in this stupid lobby. I'll post the files whenever I get the chance. Cheers.