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  • Ada Wilson attacker similar description to Ripper

    I’ve been reading previous threads about whether Ada Wilson was an earlier victim of JTR.

    One of the main reasons why it could be plausible is Ada’s description of the man is similar to the respected witness descriptions from the Ripper murders.

    Ada’s attacker was described as “from 25 to 30 years of age, medium height (about 5ft. 5in.), sunburnt face, fair moustache, and wore light trousers, a dark coat, and a wideawake hat.”

    Credible witness descriptions from Ripper killings is he was 25-35 y.o, 5’7” tall, English, fair, had a moustache, stocky.

    To refresh what we know …

    Ada claimed to be a seamtress , but evidence she was a prostitute. She claimed she was living a home at 19 Maidman Street and answered a knock on the door, a man forced himself into the room, demanded money, then stabbed her twice in the throat when she refused, and ran away leaving her for dead.

    It would appear that the claim about being robbed may have been fabricated.

    Rose Biermann, who also lived at that location said in her statement, that “I knew Mrs. Wilson as a married woman, although I had never seen her husband” and “I noticed a young, fair man rush to the front door and let himself out. He did not seem somehow to unfasten the catch as if he had been accustomed to do so before.”

    This suggests the attacker had previously visited Ada.

    One of the reasons why this was not the Ripper is Maidman Street is not in the same zone as the accepted Ripper murders. Maidman Street (which no longer exists now) was off Burdett Road, Bow.

    I’m interested in what others think about Ada as an early victim of the Ripper.

    Craig

  • #2
    Originally posted by Craig H View Post
    I’ve been reading previous threads about whether Ada Wilson was an earlier victim of JTR.

    One of the main reasons why it could be plausible is Ada’s description of the man is similar to the respected witness descriptions from the Ripper murders.

    Ada’s attacker was described as “from 25 to 30 years of age, medium height (about 5ft. 5in.), sunburnt face, fair moustache, and wore light trousers, a dark coat, and a wideawake hat.”

    Credible witness descriptions from Ripper killings is he was 25-35 y.o, 5’7” tall, English, fair, had a moustache, stocky.

    To refresh what we know …

    Ada claimed to be a seamtress , but evidence she was a prostitute. She claimed she was living a home at 19 Maidman Street and answered a knock on the door, a man forced himself into the room, demanded money, then stabbed her twice in the throat when she refused, and ran away leaving her for dead.

    It would appear that the claim about being robbed may have been fabricated.

    Rose Biermann, who also lived at that location said in her statement, that “I knew Mrs. Wilson as a married woman, although I had never seen her husband” and “I noticed a young, fair man rush to the front door and let himself out. He did not seem somehow to unfasten the catch as if he had been accustomed to do so before.”

    This suggests the attacker had previously visited Ada.

    One of the reasons why this was not the Ripper is Maidman Street is not in the same zone as the accepted Ripper murders. Maidman Street (which no longer exists now) was off Burdett Road, Bow.

    I’m interested in what others think about Ada as an early victim of the Ripper.

    Craig
    Im curious how a man that stabs a woman in the throat is similar to one that slices most throats twice and deeply before opening their abdomens? Surely the 2 things that identifies a victim likely to have fallen to this mythical and imaginary Jack is deep throat slitting and pm mutilation.

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Craig H View Post
      I’ve been reading previous threads about whether Ada Wilson was an earlier victim of JTR.

      One of the main reasons why it could be plausible is Ada’s description of the man is similar to the respected witness descriptions from the Ripper murders.

      Ada’s attacker was described as “from 25 to 30 years of age, medium height (about 5ft. 5in.), sunburnt face, fair moustache, and wore light trousers, a dark coat, and a wideawake hat.”

      Credible witness descriptions from Ripper killings is he was 25-35 y.o, 5’7” tall, English, fair, had a moustache, stocky.

      To refresh what we know …

      Ada claimed to be a seamtress , but evidence she was a prostitute. She claimed she was living a home at 19 Maidman Street and answered a knock on the door, a man forced himself into the room, demanded money, then stabbed her twice in the throat when she refused, and ran away leaving her for dead.

      It would appear that the claim about being robbed may have been fabricated.

      Rose Biermann, who also lived at that location said in her statement, that “I knew Mrs. Wilson as a married woman, although I had never seen her husband” and “I noticed a young, fair man rush to the front door and let himself out. He did not seem somehow to unfasten the catch as if he had been accustomed to do so before.”

      This suggests the attacker had previously visited Ada.

      One of the reasons why this was not the Ripper is Maidman Street is not in the same zone as the accepted Ripper murders. Maidman Street (which no longer exists now) was off Burdett Road, Bow.

      I’m interested in what others think about Ada as an early victim of the Ripper.

      Craig
      He wanted money. He was not Jack the Ripper.

      Regards, Pierre

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by Pierre View Post
        He wanted money. He was not Jack the Ripper.

        Regards, Pierre
        The witness statements say the attacker had visited Ada before - so not the random door knock that Ada told the police. The robbery claim was an excuse to explain how the attack happened

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by Michael W Richards View Post
          Im curious how a man that stabs a woman in the throat is similar to one that slices most throats twice and deeply before opening their abdomens? Surely the 2 things that identifies a victim likely to have fallen to this mythical and imaginary Jack is deep throat slitting and pm mutilation.
          Hi Michael,
          Thanks for your reply. Good point.
          However also appears he was interrupted
          Craig

          Comment


          • #6
            Craig,

            i see the replies from Michael and pierre, and would like to make a few comments.


            Michael is right in that there is a great deal of difference in the attack, however he does not seem to have considered that this could have been an embryonic attack, someone learning and trying things out.

            If Michael has considered that and discounted it, fair enough, but he did not mention that so I just wonder if he has?


            Pierre appears to be taking the sources at face value, or at least some of them. Maybe he could say what he has based his very clear comment on?



            Steve

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Craig H View Post
              I’ve been reading previous threads about whether Ada Wilson was an earlier victim of JTR.

              One of the main reasons why it could be plausible is Ada’s description of the man is similar to the respected witness descriptions from the Ripper murders.

              Ada’s attacker was described as “from 25 to 30 years of age, medium height (about 5ft. 5in.), sunburnt face, fair moustache, and wore light trousers, a dark coat, and a wideawake hat.”

              Credible witness descriptions from Ripper killings is he was 25-35 y.o, 5’7” tall, English, fair, had a moustache, stocky.

              To refresh what we know …

              Ada claimed to be a seamtress , but evidence she was a prostitute. She claimed she was living a home at 19 Maidman Street and answered a knock on the door, a man forced himself into the room, demanded money, then stabbed her twice in the throat when she refused, and ran away leaving her for dead.

              It would appear that the claim about being robbed may have been fabricated.

              Rose Biermann, who also lived at that location said in her statement, that “I knew Mrs. Wilson as a married woman, although I had never seen her husband” and “I noticed a young, fair man rush to the front door and let himself out. He did not seem somehow to unfasten the catch as if he had been accustomed to do so before.”

              This suggests the attacker had previously visited Ada.

              One of the reasons why this was not the Ripper is Maidman Street is not in the same zone as the accepted Ripper murders. Maidman Street (which no longer exists now) was off Burdett Road, Bow.

              I’m interested in what others think about Ada as an early victim of the Ripper.

              Craig
              Hi Craig
              absolutely. Ive often said it matches Blotchy and lawendes man.it also fits with an evolution of a serial killer, ala Millwood, as an early botched attempt.

              also, if the motive was merely robbery, why stab her and run away?
              "Is all that we see or seem
              but a dream within a dream?"

              -Edgar Allan Poe


              "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
              quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

              -Frederick G. Abberline

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Craig H View Post
                One of the reasons why this was not the Ripper is Maidman Street is not in the same zone as the accepted Ripper murders. Maidman Street (which no longer exists now) was off Burdett Road, Bow.
                Bow, you say?

                The description broadly fits a certain somebody, and it was a few months after that certain somebody had turned up in the East End.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Deb Arif and others also did some great research into Ada Wilson on the other site http://www.jtrforums.com/showthread.php?t=26340

                  Deb suggests her name was actually Ada Drew (nee Tradigan) and she had syphillis.

                  Possible motive for attacks on prostitutes

                  Craig

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    I've Been Saying This For Years!

                    Not only is Ada Wilson's attacker described in many ways like our old friend Mr Blotchy. But some other similar-sounding sandy-haired gent was seen around Eddowes just before she died. As for the double cut to the neck, I believe that's known as an 'insurance cut'. You'd want to be sure, wouldn't you, if your first victim had survived...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Harry D View Post

                      Bow, you say?

                      The description broadly fits a certain somebody, and it was a few months after that certain somebody had turned up in the East End.
                      What is the most recent thinking on Ada Wilson’s attack (I notice this post is a bit dated)? I read somewhere that the man might have been known to her but that seemed to be based on little more than the man knowing how to unlock the door.

                      The main problems I see with accepting Ada Wilson as an early ripper attack are the geography (Mile End) and financial motive.

                      The points of similarity seem to other suspected victims are use of a penknife (Tabram & Millwood) and height, age and wide-awake hat description of the attacker.
                      I don’t think it is out of the question to envisage JtR as doing something like this. He was a very bad man and probably had other nasty habits (assault, robbery etc) in his bag. I’m sure there are lots of examples of individuals who went from no previous minor form to something horrendous, but out of the global population of such cases, surely this must be on the ‘less likely’ side?

                      I also see another potential point of connection with Millwood and Tabram. He attacks Millwood and she doesn’t die (initially anyway, and later of something unrelated). He resolves next time to carry out a more lethal attack (to the throat – Wilson). To his horror, this also fails. When the next opportunity arises (Tabram), he makes sure and goes completely over the top.

                      Ada Wilson’s attack becomes particularly interesting when you realise the one suspect who fits the FBI profile of JtR in virtually every way was living only a mile away. He matches the description given quite well (though not sure about the sunburn - seems odd in March). He used a penknife (to murder) and slept with one under his pillow. Obviously, lots of other men of a similar physical description could have lived nearby and carried out this attack.

                      However, the geography and description become more interesting when you consider his known behaviour fits this attack. He assaulted his wife when she refused to give him money. On one occasion, five days after they were married, he pins her down and holds a knife to her. Again, this was said to have resulted in from an argument about money. He is also known to have used prostitutes and there is a suggestion that Wilson was such. The fact that he was chased and almost caught could well explain why he didn’t attack nearish to home again. Fear of recognition.

                      There is also the financial motive. Obviously, this has no relevance to JtR, but a quick feel in the dark revealed rings, which were taken, possibly in the hope of raising cash, not knowing they were of no real value. The Mrs took her jewellery with her in case he stole it to raise funds.

                      This is before you get to the fact that he inflicted an incredibly specific wound on his wife that is found on only one other C5 victim.


                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Aethelwulf View Post

                        What is the most recent thinking on Ada Wilson’s attack (I notice this post is a bit dated)? I read somewhere that the man might have been known to her but that seemed to be based on little more than the man knowing how to unlock the door.

                        The main problems I see with accepting Ada Wilson as an early ripper attack are the geography (Mile End) and financial motive.

                        The points of similarity seem to other suspected victims are use of a penknife (Tabram & Millwood) and height, age and wide-awake hat description of the attacker.
                        I don’t think it is out of the question to envisage JtR as doing something like this. He was a very bad man and probably had other nasty habits (assault, robbery etc) in his bag. I’m sure there are lots of examples of individuals who went from no previous minor form to something horrendous, but out of the global population of such cases, surely this must be on the ‘less likely’ side?

                        I also see another potential point of connection with Millwood and Tabram. He attacks Millwood and she doesn’t die (initially anyway, and later of something unrelated). He resolves next time to carry out a more lethal attack (to the throat – Wilson). To his horror, this also fails. When the next opportunity arises (Tabram), he makes sure and goes completely over the top.

                        Ada Wilson’s attack becomes particularly interesting when you realise the one suspect who fits the FBI profile of JtR in virtually every way was living only a mile away. He matches the description given quite well (though not sure about the sunburn - seems odd in March). He used a penknife (to murder) and slept with one under his pillow. Obviously, lots of other men of a similar physical description could have lived nearby and carried out this attack.

                        However, the geography and description become more interesting when you consider his known behaviour fits this attack. He assaulted his wife when she refused to give him money. On one occasion, five days after they were married, he pins her down and holds a knife to her. Again, this was said to have resulted in from an argument about money. He is also known to have used prostitutes and there is a suggestion that Wilson was such. The fact that he was chased and almost caught could well explain why he didn’t attack nearish to home again. Fear of recognition.

                        There is also the financial motive. Obviously, this has no relevance to JtR, but a quick feel in the dark revealed rings, which were taken, possibly in the hope of raising cash, not knowing they were of no real value. The Mrs took her jewellery with her in case he stole it to raise funds.

                        This is before you get to the fact that he inflicted an incredibly specific wound on his wife that is found on only one other C5 victim.

                        hi wulf
                        i lean towrds no because of location, robbery motive and dosnt really fit with my preferred escalation of millwood to tabram to nichols.
                        "Is all that we see or seem
                        but a dream within a dream?"

                        -Edgar Allan Poe


                        "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                        quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                        -Frederick G. Abberline

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Abby Normal View Post

                          hi wulf
                          i lean towrds no because of location, robbery motive and dosnt really fit with my preferred escalation of millwood to tabram to nichols.
                          Good points and you could well be right, but I’m not quite willing to write Wilson off as a JtR victim. One of my concerns is that in always looking for escalation, other crimes might be missed. As you say, there seems to be a very plausible link between Millwood and Tabram – it makes a lot of sense. But in the case of Wilson, what if it wasn’t really planned. What if JtR just needed cash and saw an opportunity. More importantly, lashing out and stabbing at the throat with what was very likely a penknife has echoes of the uncontrolled rage inflicted on Tabram.

                          Does there always need to be an escalation? Yes we can see the overall trajectory of escalation with JtR for the main crimes, but superimposed on that trend could there be other more ordinary crimes with echoes of the main victims e.g., similar weapon, rage and fury etc. I think Wilson could be one of those cases, especially given the man’s description and weapon. There was a documentary/dramatization recently about Peter Manual and his horrendous crimes were interspersed with house breaking and theft. Thinking about Bury, the attack on Wilson was just before he’d married Ellen and got her money, so his only income would have been the little he made from sawdust and what he stole from James Martin, so it makes sense that he could have been involved in a brutal financially motivated attempted theft like this.

                          Bury’s very close proximity to Wilson, and as a known penknife user/murderer, and as a very plausible physical match to her attacker, and an extremely plausible candidate as JtR, seems suspicious to me. I still think that if you look at Millwood, Wilson and Tabram in isolation, the brutal use of a penknife, who amongst the suspects is the most likely to have committed those crimes? Yes, a penknife would have been a common weapon that any of the suspects could have carried, but it is one thing to say any of the suspects could have carried one, and another to have definitive testimony that an incredibly convincing suspect was paranoid enough to keep a penknife under his pillow and carry out an entirely plausible ripper murder with a penknife (even if it wasn’t the main knife used in the C5).

                          Ultimately, ruling Wilson in or our probably comes down to how you view Bury as a likely JtR suspect. If you think him a strong candidate, everything we know about him suggests he could well have done this, especially given the location. I would be interested to see what happens if you add Wilson to a JtR geoprofile – would it highlight Bow?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            hi wulf
                            thats a good question for jeff Hamm!

                            but yes you make some good points. im not married to the idea she wasnt a ripper victim at all. as a matter of fact her attacker fits the description of blotchy... ie fair hair, as well as lawendes man, and i beleive one other witness sighting... someone who was followed-was that the man seen in fiddymonts pub?
                            re bury-was he described as having fair hair? i thought he had brown hair.

                            btw had to google your avatar as im fascinated by history. what a great name and apparently he was a total bad ass and a good man.

                            seems he also dealt pretty successfully against my ancestors, the vikings.
                            Last edited by Abby Normal; 08-31-2021, 09:13 PM.
                            "Is all that we see or seem
                            but a dream within a dream?"

                            -Edgar Allan Poe


                            "...the man and the peaked cap he is said to have worn
                            quite tallies with the descriptions I got of him."

                            -Frederick G. Abberline

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Hi Aethelwulf and Abby,

                              Funnily enough, I had done the profiles today as I was wondering what would happen if Ada Wilson were added in.

                              She extend the crime range, which in turn makes the criminal territory area that much bigger (the criminal territory area is estimated by first fiding the smallest circle that encloses all of the offenses, and then expanded by an amount based upon the number of offenses, fewer offenses requires a larger expansion due to the reduced reliability of the offense locations to convey the true extent of the offender's criminal territory). That gives me an "area size" to work with. Then, I do the profile, and just expand it out until the profile's area is as big as that search area circle. Each location in the profile has a score, so I just divide things into 40 zones, each comprising 2.5% of the total profile area. So zone 1 is the 2.5% area with the highest scores, zone 2 is the next highest, and so forth.

                              I've plotted out to the zone that is required to locate 75% of the offenders in my data set (so don't forget, that means 25% of the offenders are somewhere else - not just anywhere else, but basically just keep expanding the search as plotted and you keep picking up more). 50% of the offenders are found inside of the orange region. When we limit to just the top zone of interest (yellow), comprising 2.5% of the search area, the offender is located 27% (Dragnet), 22% (Rigel), and 26% (Dr. Watson) of the time (out of 100 cases, although not completely, some offenders lived in 2 or 3 locations, so they may appear 2 or 3 times, each time locating a different residence, etc. It's also a mix of arson, murder, and rape cases, - so not ideal by any stretch).

                              Anyway, before I start digressing too much, the short story is adding Ada doesn't really do much to the overall profiles, other than expand the size of the zones. She's more or less treated like an "outlier" (or non-representative location), and the focus remains more or less where they are without her inclusion. Note, Rigel includes a "buffer zone", so it tends to lower the weight as one gets close to an offense, while Dragnet and and Dr. Watson do not. All 3 routines more or less like around around Commercial Road/Hanbury, with Rigel tending to like the area around Flower and Dean, and also up along Middlesex Street. Dragnet particularly likes the area between the Kelly and Chapman murders (Dorset and Hanbury; that pale area represents 0.5%, so 1/2 of 1%, of the total area) while Dr. Watson (my own routines) favours along Commerical Road. That pale "peak" area, which is 0.5% of the search space, contains the offender 10% (Dragnet), 4% (Rigel), and 7% of the time (note, none of the percentages are statistically different between routines; if I were to grab a new set of offenses, they could easily order the opposite way).

                              Anyway, Dr. Watson and Rigel both take a wee punt out towards Ada Wilson's crime location, but it's only on the edge of the outter most zone.

                              - Jeff


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