Let there be light!

[Observer]

This will be Groundhog Day for those people who have been paying attention and actually following the debate in this thread.

But my response to that article extract you have posted is this:

Why did Mary Kelly require doss money?

That's not one of my posts.

[David Orsam]

So you believe that Kelly obtained and ate a meal of fish and chips at 7:00 a.m. in the morning?

I don't believe anything. For all I know she was already dead for some hours at 7:00am.

But, if Maxwell's evidence was true, is it possible that she could have eaten fish and chips at 7:00am? Yes, I can't see why not.

[curious]

Do you also wonder why the story said of the reporter: "as he stepped out into the darkness visible of Dorset-street from the glow-light of the lodging-house kitchen, the men laughed loudly and their laughter was carried up the street."? Why were they laughing so much?

Hi, David,
This is very interesting.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on why they were laughing so much.

Thanks,

curious

[David Orsam]

That's not one of my posts.

Are you saying you've been hacked?

[Observer]

Are you saying you've been hacked?

At no time have I posted the following

"Originally Posted by Observer View Post
I guv her the money for her doss three weeks ago cos she hadn't none"

[David Orsam]

At no time have I posted the following

"Originally Posted by Observer View Post
I guv her the money for her doss three weeks ago cos she hadn't none"

What was going on in #683 then?

[Observer]

If it's becoming tedious it's because you aren't answering my questions and I have to keep posting to force you to answer them.

The question I had in mind was "Are we to believe that the single scream as heard by Lewis and Prater was the result of a common assault?" and in the end I had to answer it myself for you to which you have commented "By jove he's got it". I will respond to that separately.

But so that we can understand each other. Could you answer the question which I asked some time ago but you haven't answered as follows:

Do you accept that the evidence of Prater was that a cry of "oh murder" was a common occurrence in the neighbourhood at night?

Absolutely it was a rough neighbourhood. And now answer my question. Do you accept that a female crying out "oh murder" at four o clock in the morning is in danger of being assaulted?

[David Orsam]

Absolutely it was a rough neighbourhood. And now answer my question. Do you accept that a female crying out "oh murder" at four o clock in the morning is in danger of being assaulted?

Any woman out at four o'clock in the morning in that neighbourhood was in danger of being assaulted.

But I would have thought a woman being assaulted would most likely scream for help.

But hey, if you think that the cry of "oh murder" at that time in the morning was a woman being assaulted then fine, perhaps that's what it was.

Now, what's your point?

[Phil Carter]

....
But, if Maxwell's evidence was true, is it possible that she could have eaten fish and chips at 7:00am? Yes, I can't see why not.

Hello David...

My dear fellow..MJK eating fish and chips st 7am is highly unlikely. .for various reasons. .

The nearest two places selling fish and chips were in Hoxton and in Shoreditch..and those places only opened in 1896... even though the first fish and chip place in London was in 1860.
Secondly..the price . (1896) was 9d. MJK didn't have 9d so far as we know..not even Hutch could help her towards that cost.
Thirdly..fish and potato in the stomach doesn't mean fish and chips. It was far more the norm to eat raw potato too. As for the fish... there is no indication that said fish in stomach was coveted in or was mixed up with any batter. Crispy batter..being what it is..would take longer time to break down in the stomach.

That said..time wise..there is no reason why she could not have eaten at 7am..but fish and chips? Err..no. sorry.



Phil

[David Orsam]

Hello David...

My dear fellow..MJK eating fish and chips st 7am is highly unlikely. .for various reasons. .

The nearest two places selling fish and chips were in Hoxton and in Shoreditch..and those places only opened in 1896... even though the first fish and chip place in London was in 1860.
Secondly..the price . (1896) was 9d. MJK didn't have 9d so far as we know..not even Hutch could help her towards that cost.
Thirdly..fish and potato in the stomach doesn't mean fish and chips. It was far more the norm to eat raw potato too. As for the fish... there is no indication that said fish in stomach was coveted in or was mixed up with any batter. Crispy batter..being what it is..would take longer time to break down in the stomach.

That said..time wise..there is no reason why she could not have eaten at 7am..but fish and chips? Err..no. sorry.

Could she have eaten fish and potatoes at 7:00am Phil?

[Phil Carter]

Could she have eaten fish and potatoes at 7:00am Phil?

Indeed..She certainly could have!

Phil

[Robert St Devil]

Would there have been street vendors selling fish and potatoes for the Lord Mayor,s Day parade? The way we find vendors setup in makeshift tents for special holidays, like what we will expect to see tomorrow along our parades.

[David Orsam]

Indeed..She certainly could have!

Thank you Phil.

There we are. I'll modify my previous answer from fish and chips to fish and potatoes.

[Observer]

Any woman out at four o'clock in the morning in that neighbourhood was in danger of being assaulted.

But I would have thought a woman being assaulted would most likely scream for help.

But hey, if you think that the cry of "oh murder" at that time in the morning was a woman being assaulted then fine, perhaps that's what it was.

Now, what's your point?

Exactly, she would have screamed for help. Good now we're getting somewhere. I refer you to post #647. the following is an extract from that post

"Originally Posted by David Orsam View Post
And as I have already asked, does someone faced with a knife cry out "oh murder!" in a faint voice rather than screaming for help? It doesn't seem natural to me nor likely."

My reply

Incredible. Absolutely incredible. You acknowledge that Kelly should have made more noise upon being faced with a knife, and yet you would have us believe that an assault (which was serious enough for the victim to have cried oh murder) took place "at the front door" of Sarah Lewis and the only utterance was as single cry of "oh murder". Come off it David"

What I'm saying is the cry could only have come from Kelly. If the cry had come from some other assault then Sarah Lewis and Prater would have heard more, several screams, a male voice, the battering of a door should the victim require assistance.

I've had it happen to me, and she wasn't battering the door down because she had heard of my renown as a great lover, rather, her boyfriend was trying to kick the living daylights out of her, the noise was tremendous out in the street.

A single scream, "oh murder" and Kelly was no more.


A single cry of "oh murder" is not consistent with such an assault,

[Observer]

Indeed..She certainly could have!

Phil

Come off it