MJK2 & MJK3 Left/right & fake debate

[Elamarna]

Dear Richard

does your work on this give you any indication on how far you think bed and table were moved: a few inches ? a few foot? more? it would be interesting to know if it does suggest any sort of distance.

yours

steve

[richardh]

No Steve, and I don't think it would be possible to find out using this method. There's nothing in the surrounding environment on either photo that could be used as a reference point between the two photos.
Although I remember doing something similar to this a while back and finding that the table in MJK2/3 is certainly not in the same location/position in relation to the bed.

IF the table and the bed were the same position/location in relation to each other in both photos then, like the left hand, they would match up when I swung the camera around from mjk2 to mjk3. They don't, so I guess we can say that the table & bed, as well as being moved within the room, were also moved in relation to each other between shots.

I'd love to do further work with this but I'm not sure if we will accomplish much.

Dear Richard

does your work on this give you any indication on how far you think bed and table were moved: a few inches ? a few foot? more? it would be interesting to know if it does suggest any sort of distance.

yours

steve

[Elamarna]

No Steve, and I don't think it would be possible to find out using this method. There's nothing in the surrounding environment on either photo that could be used as a reference point between the two photos.
Although I remember doing something similar to this a while back and finding that the table in MJK2/3 is certainly not in the same location/position in relation to the bed.

IF the table and the bed were the same position/location in relation to each other in both photos then, like the left hand, they would match up when I swung the camera around from mjk2 to mjk3. They don't, so I guess we can say that the table & bed, as well as being moved within the room, were also moved in relation to each other between shots.

I'd love to do further work with this but I'm not sure if we will accomplish much.

Thank you Richard, I just wondered.
It seems obvious that there must have been some movement of table, given it was knocked on entering.
similarly it seems obvious that the bed must have been moved to allow MJK3 to be taken.

Great work, if it is a fake it is a good one! I know Simon Wood now insists it is.

steve

[richardh]

I doubt this will make him change his mind Although it is hard to justify a fake if the hand position & location in the one photo EXACTLY fits the hand position & location in the other.

Great work, if it is a fake it is a good one! I know Simon Wood now insists it is.

steve

[Elamarna]

I doubt this will make him change his mind Although it is hard to justify a fake if the hand position & location in the one photo EXACTLY fits the hand position & location in the other.

Agreed.Y
ou have done very informative work, it is a pity there is no common point of reference in either of the photos; of course Stewart Evans I think it is says he has seen a 3rd photo which as never been made public, if I am wrong about that am sorry, know it was one of the very senior posters.

Steve

[richardh]

Well, that's a shame - that it's never been seen - because it could make all the difference to the arm-chair investigation AND my attempts to 3D things.

maybe one day...

Agreed.Y
ou have done very informative work, it is a pity there is no common point of reference in either of the photos; of course Stewart Evans I think it is says he has seen a 3rd photo which as never been made public, if I am wrong about that am sorry, know it was one of the very senior posters.

Steve

[Elamarna]

Well, that's a shame - that it's never been seen - because it could make all the difference to the arm-chair investigation AND my attempts to 3D things.

maybe one day...

Richard, it was mentioned in passing in a thread talking about the photos, but I can't remember which thread or when, just remember it and thinking the same.

Steve

[Robert St Devil]

Hello RichardH

I am intrigued to see a representation of mjk3 that enunciates her pinky digit appropriately altho i had never assumed that it was bent under, which i believe has more synchronization. It was the illusion of "the thumb" that had to be overcome. Excellent work.

Reviewing mjk1, i had the occurrence that, yes, her poor body was transformed into a gory mess however she is not a bloody mess. IOW its not the extensive bloodbath one might expect once the details of her injuries are explained. I was taking this into consideration when "the chevron" was pointed out. Is it naiive to assume that the cuts would have bled out onto her hand (like Stride's, possibly)? It made me consider the purpose of this action, and whether it could have been part of the killer's MO. My best resolution so far: Jack the Ripper bled out her body, and we could claim this possibly by the report of the pool of blood found near the far side of the bed. Could the cuts be a manner of testing her, to see if he can proceed with his ritual? If the incisions run with blood, then he knows she's not quite ready for the pursuant mutilations. Again, her face was transformed into a gory mess, but part of the eeriness is how unbloody it is. As tho he cut away bloodless slabs of flesh, and allowed her to retain that haunting unmarked smile.

[ChrisGeorge]

Dear Richard

does your work on this give you any indication on how far you think bed and table were moved: a few inches ? a few foot? more? it would be interesting to know if it does suggest any sort of distance.

yours

steve

Hello everyone

Good work, Richard. An interesting and worthwhile animation and discussion. Thanks.

Of course, the bed had to be moved away from the wall and the dry sink with the bolster on it in order for the photographer to take the smaller photograph looking across the bed and victim toward the door to the room. See first illustration below. The second newspaper illustration shows the photographer actually in the room, but from door side of the bed, taking the famous bigger and gorier photograph of MJK. In order to take the smaller photo of the room and the slaughtered woman, the bed would have had to have been moved away from the wall at least as far as to be able to fit the photographer's tripod and person between the bed and the wall and dry sink. I hope this explanation helps.

Best regards

Chris

[ChrisGeorge]

Simon Wood's plan shows what I am talking about, how the bed was moved away from the wall to allow the photographer in to take that smaller photo:



See "Room 13 Miller's Court" by Simon D. Wood here on Casebook.

Best regards

Chris

[Elamarna]

Chris

Many thanks for that, it fits in with the view I already held.
Can i also point out the article in Ripperologist issue 80 by William Michael on photographing Miller's Court which i actually reread yesterday.
It gives a great deal of important background data on the issue.



Steve

[richardh]

I'd like to read that but I don't have issue 80. I started getting Ripperologist from about issue 110 via email (pdf).
Is it possible to get back issues?

Chris

Many thanks for that, it fits in with the view I already held.
Can i also point out the article in Ripperologist issue 80 by William Michael on photographing Miller's Court which i actually reread yesterday.
It gives a great deal of important background data on the issue.



Steve

[Elamarna]

I'd like to read that but I don't have issue 80. I started getting Ripperologist from about issue 110 via email (pdf).
Is it possible to get back issues?

Richard
There is a link. I downloaded all the available issues in November, but have unfortunately lost the link.Someone else on the boards will surely have the link, or email Ripperologist direct.

Steve

[Elamarna]

I'd like to read that but I don't have issue 80. I started getting Ripperologist from about issue 110 via email (pdf).
Is it possible to get back issues?

Richard

the link below allowed my to download as a zip I think issues 62-80


http://ripperologist.us10.list-manag...5dd14a5971hope that helps

Steve

[Phil Carter]

As far as I know.. and as far as I know has been checked..The tripod holding this type of camera did NOT have retractable legs. Therefore any photo taken on the other side of the bed must have been taken without a tripod somehow. .because of height of photo shown.

Even the sketch shows a tripod with fixed length legs.



Phil