Suggestion

[DJA]

Any door from the stairwell would open into Mary's room.

Her bed was up against that door.

[Pierre]

Hi
I think there is a big difference between a different opinion in judging a time of death and lying at an inquest. There are no indications whatsoever that Dr. Philips was purposefully lying to the coroner about the method of entering the room, neither would he have had reason to do so. And neither was he alone when the room was entered so an open lie at the inquest would have been immediately checked by the other witnesses present who were also at the scene at the time. Besides, where is the other door? To be frank I am a bit confused with this new method of historical research.
Regards,
Ichabod

Well, who were "the other witnesses" that was at the murder site on the 9th of November?

And why did they board up the windows in nr 26 from the outside?

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

The trouble is that we don't know whether the boarded-up door in Mary's room was actually completely boarded up on that November night or not. If it was locked or bolted AND heavily boarded up, then any intruder, including Jack, would have had a problem. He would also have had a problem if the bed was jammed up against that partition. It was a very tiny room and surely Mary would have utilised any space she had?

But the door opened up into nr 26.

And, if it was so easy to get in that way, why didn't the police use it?

They did, as you can see on the photograph with the barricaded door.

The police never described the main door as being actually barricaded by bed and table in the way that's been illustrated, and they surely would have done so if it had been.

Would they? But they didn´t. Why?

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

[QUOTE=Robert St Devil;361474]PIERRE.

BREAKING & ENTERING . How does the killer know about this secret door?

Yes. Very interesting question.

BUT ALSO. Wouldnt the police have found blood on the other side of the door opening (inside #26)?

Yes. They probably would.

Regards Pierre

[Rosella]

^ Which women's noses, Eddowes and Kelly? Jack only cut the tip from Kate's and no doubt there were so many tiny bits and pieces of raw flesh lying around her in Mitre Square a small bloodied nose tip may well have remained unidentified.

Heaven knows what happened to Mary's nose. Perhaps her killer didn't carve it off in one fell swoop but took skin and bone off piecemeal, with the skin in strips. He might have thrown bits and pieces (skin and pieces of bone) from Mary's body onto the fire. (Besides her heart, that is, though IMO Mary's heart was Jack's souvenir from this particular excursion.)

[Robert St Devil]

Corrrect. The killer used this door to get in. He killed Mary Kelly in her sleep, barricaded the other door and performed the mutilations. After the murder he left through the first door. The police couldn't get in since the door facing Miller's Court was barricaded.

Number 26 was also boarded up after the murder.

Regards Pierre

PIERRE.

BREAKING & ENTERING . How does the killer know about this secret door?

BUT ALSO. Wouldnt the police have found blood on the other side of the door opening (inside #26)?

DR BOND. Wouldnt you think that Mary Jane Kelly would have been rigid after being deceased for 12 to 13 hours? Forensic Pathology Online states that victims of violent crime, such as cut-throat, have an early onset of rigor mortis and short duration times.
Also, her body temp would have dropped noticeably (if its 1.5 degree F for every hour). So how that works into Bonds assessment of "comparatively cooler" is still something i have to work out.

DR PHIL. I wouldn't know if he was lying, but I will agree that he may not be all that good and determing TimeOfDeath considering the Annie Chapman murder. However wrong he may have been in that murder, he does prove resourceful by providing the closest thing to an assessment of her algor mortis ("warm intestines").

BTW. Does anybody know what happened to these women's noses? I am under the impression that they were cut-off, but i never read report of them being found.

[MysterySinger]

And there's that door again (not my drawing by the way).

[Rosella]

The trouble is that we don't know whether the boarded-up door in Mary's room was actually completely boarded up on that November night or not. If it was locked or bolted AND heavily boarded up, then any intruder, including Jack, would have had a problem. He would also have had a problem if the bed was jammed up against that partition. It was a very tiny room and surely Mary would have utilised any space she had?

On the other hand, if wood from the door/partition had been used for kindling since it was boarded up, as I suspect it might, and the bed was moved a little from the partition there is the possibility, no more, than somebody could have utilised that entry. And, if it was so easy to get in that way, why didn't the police use it?

Photographers and police were in the habit of moving furniture about in murder rooms. They did so in several other famous cases. The police never described the main door as being actually barricaded by bed and table in the way that's been illustrated, and they surely would have done so if it had been.

[Pierre]

There is a door that accessed Kelly's room from Miller's Court and there is another door that accessed her room from (originally) number 26 that had at one time been boarded over.

This is the one you can see behind Kelly's body in the most common photo of her on the bed. The assumption is that this could still be accessed via the entry into the building that also serviced the stairs to Prater's room and most likely also still from the back of number 26. That is my understanding.

Both doors are in the photos here.

Corrrect. The killer used this door to get in. He killed Mary Kelly in her sleep, barricaded the other door and performed the mutilations. After the murder he left through the first door. The police couldn't get in since the door facing Miller's Court was barricaded.

Number 26 was also boarded up after the murder.

Regards Pierre

[MysterySinger]

There is a door that accessed Kelly's room from Miller's Court and there is another door that accessed her room from (originally) number 26 that had at one time been boarded over.

This is the one you can see behind Kelly's body in the most common photo of her on the bed. The assumption is that this could still be accessed via the entry into the building that also serviced the stairs to Prater's room and most likely also still from the back of number 26. That is my understanding.

Both doors are in the photos here.

[Wickerman]

Hi Pierre,
And the killer made his way out through the secret side door?
You will forgive me (and others) for feeling amused with this idea?
Regards
IchabodCrane

Amused, isn't quite the word.

[IchabodCrane]

Hi Robert,

I am suggesting that the bed and the table were positioned to barricade the door leading from the court to Mary Jane Kelly´s room.

Regards Pierre

Hi Pierre,
And the killer made his way out through the secret side door?
You will forgive me (and others) for feeling amused with this idea?
Regards
IchabodCrane

[IchabodCrane]

Hi,

I have chosen to believe that Dr. Bond was right about the time of the murder. Therefore Dr. Phillips could have been lying about that. And so he could have lied about the positions of the bed and table too. There is an indication of that in the inquest:

"[Coroner] Did you hear beds or tables being pulled about?"

http://www.casebook.org/official_doc...est_kelly.html

" Dr. Bond concluded that: "1 or 2 in the morning would be the probable time of the murder"

...But un-remarked, both at the time, and since, was Dr. Phillips' assessment of 5.00 to 6.00 a.m., a difference of three to five hours with Dr. Bond."

http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...?printer=true)

Regards Pierre

Hi
I think there is a big difference between a different opinion in judging a time of death and lying at an inquest. There are no indications whatsoever that Dr. Philips was purposefully lying to the coroner about the method of entering the room, neither would he have had reason to do so. And neither was he alone when the room was entered so an open lie at the inquest would have been immediately checked by the other witnesses present who were also at the scene at the time. Besides, where is the other door? To be frank I am a bit confused with this new method of historical research.
Regards,
Ichabod

[Pierre]

Are you suggesting the placement of the door? Or that it was open?

Hi Robert,

I am suggesting that the bed and the table were positioned to barricade the door leading from the court to Mary Jane Kelly´s room.

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

Hi Pierre,

in your opinion, how does that tally with Dr. Philips' statement at the inquest:
"On the door being opened it knocked against a table which was close to the left-hand side of the bedstead, and the bedstead was close against the wooden partition."

Where exactly would the 'other door' have been?

Regards
IchabodCrane

Hi,

I have chosen to believe that Dr. Bond was right about the time of the murder. Therefore Dr. Phillips could have been lying about that. And so he could have lied about the positions of the bed and table too. There is an indication of that in the inquest:

"[Coroner] Did you hear beds or tables being pulled about?"

http://www.casebook.org/official_doc...est_kelly.html

" Dr. Bond concluded that: "1 or 2 in the morning would be the probable time of the murder"

...But un-remarked, both at the time, and since, was Dr. Phillips' assessment of 5.00 to 6.00 a.m., a difference of three to five hours with Dr. Bond."

http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...?printer=true)

Regards Pierre