Suggestion

[Brenda]

.

Were those costermonger carts collapsible by any chance? Maybe they could be folded down smaller somehow? Or the wheels easily removed for storage? Maybe they could just use the door after all.

[GUT]

Were those costermonger carts collapsible by any chance? Maybe they could be folded down smaller somehow? Or the wheels easily removed for storage? Maybe they could just use the door after all.

Nope, not collapsible and once the wheels came off ( no easy task) too heavy to move.

[Wickerman]

g'day Jon

But how long was he looking up the Court?

If I'm standing waiting (usually for HERSELF) I will be looking around, now someone may see me and say I was looking in a shop, and for the brief period they observed me I may have been. Doesn't mean I was focused on that shop, might just be that I was bored out of my tine little head, and searching for something to occupy my mind.

Hi GUT.

When the police are dealing with a witness, I guess they have to assume the witness is able to differentiate between idle glancing and looking with intent.

Lewis did say:
"The man standing in the street was looking up the court as if waiting for some one to come out," in one version, and "The man was looking up the court; he seemed to be waiting or looking for some one.", in another.

We may have to ask ourselves if we could tell the difference between a person standing around idling their time and a person obviously waiting for someone?

Obviously she could have made a mistake, however because this loiterer was looking in the direction where a murder will soon take place, the police are going to show some interest in her statement.

[Robert St Devil]

Hi Brenda.
Or it could have served as a costermonger warehouse. Like a place to store whatever inventory that wasnt sold that day. I know costermongers were notorious for selling rotten produce.

[Robert St Devil]

Hi Wickerman.
Do you think, in light of the Schwartz testimony a month prior, the evidence of a man loitering near the doorway of a lodging house directly across from the site of the murder may have raised alarms?
What was across the street from the Hanbury murder site?

[Wickerman]

Hi Brenda.
Or it could have served as a costermonger warehouse. Like a place to store whatever inventory that wasnt sold that day. I know costermongers were notorious for selling rotten produce.

The press account specifically says:
"...being over a shed or warehouse used for the storage of costers' barrows."
Daily Telegraph, Nov 10th 1888.

Hi Wickerman.
Do you think, in light of the Schwartz testimony a month prior, the evidence of a man loitering near the doorway of a lodging house directly across from the site of the murder may have raised alarms?
What was across the street from the Hanbury murder site?

I think they were private houses, they existed for much longer so were used as a comparison for what existed on the north side of Hanbury St.

[Robert St Devil]

Thanks Wickerman.
I am working through a pattern i noticed in the Chapman/Stride/Kelly murders. In Chapman/Kelly, we have evidence of a man loitering in a doorway across the street. In Chapman/Stride/Kelly, there is testimony stating that a couple was seen nearby around the same time/TOD:

[C2] Elizabeth Long sees the shabby genteel man and woman near 29 Hanbury seven minutes after Cadoshe hears something against the fence.
[C3] James Brown sees a man and the "not tonight" girl at the corner of Fairclough&Berner around the same time Schwartz is coming home.
[C5] Sarah Lewis sees the man who accosted her talking with a woman near the Brittania within the probable range of TOD. She also sees a man and a drunk girl up the court.

*This is working off the premise that Eddowes may have been a second attempt. If not for botching his knife, maybe Eddowes wasnt supposed to happen.

Any thoughts?

[Hercule Poirot]

Room 13 Millers Court

I think reading what Simon Wood wrote about the room deserves some attention: http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...ers-court.html

[GUT]

Hi GUT.

When the police are dealing with a witness, I guess they have to assume the witness is able to differentiate between idle glancing and looking with intent.

Lewis did say:
"The man standing in the street was looking up the court as if waiting for some one to come out," in one version, and "The man was looking up the court; he seemed to be waiting or looking for some one.", in another.

We may have to ask ourselves if we could tell the difference between a person standing around idling their time and a person obviously waiting for someone?

Obviously she could have made a mistake, however because this loiterer was looking in the direction where a murder will soon take place, the police are going to show some interest in her statement.

G'day Jon

Of course they had to take it at face value and look into it, however I know that I often stand staring into space, while waiting for HER, and I'm not sure that f I was observing me, I'd know if was watching for someone or just killing time.

The most suspicious thing to me is that he never came forward and said it was me (unless it was Hutch), but the same applies to Blotchy and numerous other characters seen around the murder sites.

[DJA]

I think reading what Simon Wood wrote about the room deserves some attention: http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...ers-court.html

Look at the tables.

One is the bedside one.

The other is different.

It might be the one near the window that we are mistaking for a door.

[Robert St Devil]

Is there a reason why MJK1 is a square-framed picture while MJK3 is a rectangular picture?

[GUT]

Is there a reason why MJK1 is a square-framed picture while MJK3 is a rectangular picture?

Most likely as simple as how they were printed, Pretty much all plates were rectangular in '88, assuming they were using a plate camera which seems most likely.

But that doesn't mean they'd always print the full plate.

[Pierre]

A scientific problem to be solved

The press account specifically says:
"...being over a shed or warehouse used for the storage of costers' barrows."
Daily Telegraph, Nov 10th 1888.

Hi Wickerman,

It must be clear to everyone that we have a scientific problem here. We can not solve this problem by having private opinions about it. We can not draw any conclusions before we either have examined the sources at hand to find a valid conclusion or before we have found a more reliable source.

The scientific problem is:

We have different sources saying different things about 26 Dorset Street:

It had been boarded up after the murder on Kelly. / Or it had gates.

So our task now is to find other sources or make a more valid interpretation of the sources we have.

Until then, we only have hypotheses.

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

Is there a reason why MJK1 is a square-framed picture while MJK3 is a rectangular picture?

I have no idea.

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

Were those costermonger carts collapsible by any chance? Maybe they could be folded down smaller somehow? Or the wheels easily removed for storage? Maybe they could just use the door after all.

There can not have been many of these carts in such a small area. Number 26 was just twice as large as number 13.

Regards Pierre