Suggestion

[Pierre]

What do you think?

[Robert St Devil]

Are you suggesting the placement of the door? Or that it was open?

[MysterySinger]

I'm unsure what is being suggested here. The photo appears to be from the other side of the bed so the bed must have been moved away from the wall/partition that it was previously up against.

Any door in that position from this photo would be the main entry to Kelly's room (the one they struggled to open) and, maybe this is the point of Pierre's post, would probably be a bit damaged if they had to bash it in.

However there was, in fact, another door into the room albeit (in theory) sealed off and at one time boarded over. This door must have led to the same entrance as that on the ground floor to the stairs for Prater's room (and more than likely then on to another door into the back of number 26.

I say boarded over at one time because that's the impression I get from Kelly photo 1 - much of the boarding appears to have been pulled away re-exposing the door. In fact, the boarding had probably been used as fire wood over the years (maybe even on the day in question). If it was possible to still open this door, a surprise attack would easily have been possible on Kelly. There's no other suggestion of that though so just my crackpot theory.

[Pcdunn]

Hi, Pierre,

There is a thread on this particular photograph elsewhere on Casebook. I get the impression some people think it is a hoax or faked. I don't know why anyone would try such a gruesome thing, and am more inclined to think it could be real.
When discussing the appearance of the door in this picture, the idea that it is controversial should also be considered.

[MysterySinger]

I'm not sure about the pic being fake either. I think the bed has been moved so the photographer can get a shot from the opposite side of the body and there may have been some movement of the body too. The main door looks to be open a little to me.

In brown here is where I see doors! What do others see?

[Pierre]

I'm unsure what is being suggested here. The photo appears to be from the other side of the bed so the bed must have been moved away from the wall/partition that it was previously up against.

Any door in that position from this photo would be the main entry to Kelly's room (the one they struggled to open) and, maybe this is the point of Pierre's post, would probably be a bit damaged if they had to bash it in.

However there was, in fact, another door into the room albeit (in theory) sealed off and at one time boarded over. This door must have led to the same entrance as that on the ground floor to the stairs for Prater's room (and more than likely then on to another door into the back of number 26.

I say boarded over at one time because that's the impression I get from Kelly photo 1 - much of the boarding appears to have been pulled away re-exposing the door. In fact, the boarding had probably been used as fire wood over the years (maybe even on the day in question). If it was possible to still open this door, a surprise attack would easily have been possible on Kelly. There's no other suggestion of that though so just my crackpot theory.

Yes. Well done. And all this explains why the police had a problem entering Kelly´s room.

And when they did get in, they used the other door. That´s why they were able to take this photograph.

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

I'm not sure about the pic being fake either. I think the bed has been moved so the photographer can get a shot from the opposite side of the body and there may have been some movement of the body too. The main door looks to be open a little to me.

In brown here is where I see doors! What do others see?

The brown in the right picture is the wall.

The door is where the label "door" is.

If you look at any plan of the room you can see that and you can also see where the bed fits in.

The brown in the left one is right according to the plans of the house.

And spot on - the door is a bit open since they tried to open it before finding the other entrance.

MysterySinger: Could you please try and make a picture where the right side on the right photograph has the brown door?

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

What do you think?

This is how he barricaded the door but the table (T) was placed a bit more to the left as you see on the photograph:

[Pierre]

Details

Regards Pierre.

[MysterySinger]

Photo corrected and, that explains why the window is obscured.

[Pierre]

Thank you MysterySinger

Photo corrected and, that explains why the window is obscured.

Thanks a lot.

That is perfect.

Regards Pierre

[IchabodCrane]

Yes. Well done. And all this explains why the police had a problem entering Kelly´s room.

And when they did get in, they used the other door. That´s why they were able to take this photograph.

Regards Pierre

Hi Pierre,

in your opinion, how does that tally with Dr. Philips' statement at the inquest:
"On the door being opened it knocked against a table which was close to the left-hand side of the bedstead, and the bedstead was close against the wooden partition."

Where exactly would the 'other door' have been?

Regards
IchabodCrane

[Pierre]

Hi Pierre,

in your opinion, how does that tally with Dr. Philips' statement at the inquest:
"On the door being opened it knocked against a table which was close to the left-hand side of the bedstead, and the bedstead was close against the wooden partition."

Where exactly would the 'other door' have been?

Regards
IchabodCrane

Hi,

I have chosen to believe that Dr. Bond was right about the time of the murder. Therefore Dr. Phillips could have been lying about that. And so he could have lied about the positions of the bed and table too. There is an indication of that in the inquest:

"[Coroner] Did you hear beds or tables being pulled about?"

http://www.casebook.org/official_doc...est_kelly.html

" Dr. Bond concluded that: "1 or 2 in the morning would be the probable time of the murder"

...But un-remarked, both at the time, and since, was Dr. Phillips' assessment of 5.00 to 6.00 a.m., a difference of three to five hours with Dr. Bond."

http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...?printer=true)

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

Are you suggesting the placement of the door? Or that it was open?

Hi Robert,

I am suggesting that the bed and the table were positioned to barricade the door leading from the court to Mary Jane Kelly´s room.

Regards Pierre

[IchabodCrane]

Hi,

I have chosen to believe that Dr. Bond was right about the time of the murder. Therefore Dr. Phillips could have been lying about that. And so he could have lied about the positions of the bed and table too. There is an indication of that in the inquest:

"[Coroner] Did you hear beds or tables being pulled about?"

http://www.casebook.org/official_doc...est_kelly.html

" Dr. Bond concluded that: "1 or 2 in the morning would be the probable time of the murder"

...But un-remarked, both at the time, and since, was Dr. Phillips' assessment of 5.00 to 6.00 a.m., a difference of three to five hours with Dr. Bond."

http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...?printer=true)

Regards Pierre

Hi
I think there is a big difference between a different opinion in judging a time of death and lying at an inquest. There are no indications whatsoever that Dr. Philips was purposefully lying to the coroner about the method of entering the room, neither would he have had reason to do so. And neither was he alone when the room was entered so an open lie at the inquest would have been immediately checked by the other witnesses present who were also at the scene at the time. Besides, where is the other door? To be frank I am a bit confused with this new method of historical research.
Regards,
Ichabod