Oh, murder!

[David Orsam]

Did Prater state that she could recognize the voice?

Did Prater state that she had heard the voice of Kelly?

My dear chap, your questions, which appear to be addressed to me, simply do not follow from what I have posted.

What I posted was corroborating evidence that the cry of murder was a frequent one in the neighbourhood of Whitechapel, as Prater said, thus reducing the probability that the one heard in the early hours of 9 November by residents around Millers Court had anything to do with Kelly's murder.

[Sam Flynn]

"Oh murder" may also have been polite rendition of "oh fu.ck". This politeness is either Kelly's or her neighbours or the Newspapers.

Given Kelly's French pretensions, it might even have been "Ô merde!".

Just kidding.

[Pierre]

Following the murder of Martha Tabram, Francis Hewitt, the superintendent of the George Yard Buildings, and his wife, told a reporter for the East London Observer (as published on 18 August 1888):

'the district round here is rather rough, and cries of 'Murder' are of frequent, if not nightly, occurrence in the district.'

Thus corroborating the evidence of Elizabeth Prater some three months later.

Did Prater state that she could recognize the voice?

Did Prater state that she had heard the voice of Kelly?

Pierre

[Abby Normal]

You're such a cynic, Simon. I'm sure in Kelly's case it would have been less a conscious thought process than a desperate, forlorn hope.
But the fact that any PC who did happen to be patrolling outside a private dwelling would be unable or unwilling to enter without this magic word - even if he could hear other screams and cries of obvious distress from within - explains (to me at least) the prevalence of a cry which seems so odd to modern ears.

Nice find Josh
to me it just establishes that mary was crying out and felt she was in mortal danger.

[jason_c]

I've just noticed a possible explanation for the cry of "Oh, murder!", and why such cries were common, in an article about policing from the Star 3rd Oct;

The police are so fenced in by rules and regulations that they seem to be afraid to act on their own responsibility in a grave emergency. If a deadly fight is taking place in a house they will not enter unless they hear cries of "Murder"

I think this is a plausible explanation. I have a few other thoughts on the matter. Instead of Kelly crying out for a policeman she was crying out for a friendly or inquisitive neighbour. It was Kelly's neighbours in Miller's Court who could have aided her during the attack. It was her neighbours who would have had to drag themselves out of bed to investigate the incident. I think a blood curdling scream would have been Kelly's likely reaction to a mortal threat, but "oh murder" may have been second best. Also, thinking out loud but if Kelly initially felt in danger but not mortal danger she need not have screamed in absolute terror(as I suspect most would when being attacked with a knife).

"Oh murder" sounds awfully like a cry from a Victorian novel. I wonder if the fiction styles of the mid Victorian period had seeped into popular use in the LVP. "Oh murder" may also have been polite rendition of "oh fu.ck". This politeness is either Kelly's or her neighbours or the Newspapers.

[David Orsam]

Following the murder of Martha Tabram, Francis Hewitt, the superintendent of the George Yard Buildings, and his wife, told a reporter for the East London Observer (as published on 18 August 1888):

'the district round here is rather rough, and cries of 'Murder' are of frequent, if not nightly, occurrence in the district.'

Thus corroborating the evidence of Elizabeth Prater some three months later.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Joshua,

And you're such a romantic.

Regards,

Simon

[Pierre]

I don't know how some of these easier to answer questions keep stumping people.

"oh, murder"...heard by Sarah and Elizabeth. By Sarah, "as if at her door", by Elizabeth, "as if from the court". Not one single sound was heard after that by either woman, and one lived upstairs and could hear when Mary moved furniture around in her room. Ergo..."oh, murder" does not signal a murder was commencing.

The simplest and easiest answer to what was meant by 'oh, murder" is this...Mary heard a knock on her door or window...(diddles awoke upstairs, waking Elizabeth)..and when she groggily answers the door she exclaims "oh, murder" in the same way someone would exclaim "oh, ****" today. It was just dismay at finding someone she wasn't expecting at 4am knocking her up.

This was of course her killer. And it would seem she quietly lets him in,...which answers another question, did she know her attacker? Unequivocally, yes.

There is no evidence that Prater recognized the voice she heard. Why?

Pierre

[David Orsam]

The simplest and easiest answer to what was meant by 'oh, murder" is this...Mary heard a knock on her door or window...(diddles awoke upstairs, waking Elizabeth)..and when she groggily answers the door she exclaims "oh, murder" in the same way someone would exclaim "oh, ****" today. It was just dismay at finding someone she wasn't expecting at 4am knocking her up.

You seriously think that is "the simplest and easiest answer"?

[Michael W Richards]

I don't know how some of these easier to answer questions keep stumping people.

"oh, murder"...heard by Sarah and Elizabeth. By Sarah, "as if at her door", by Elizabeth, "as if from the court". Not one single sound was heard after that by either woman, and one lived upstairs and could hear when Mary moved furniture around in her room. Ergo..."oh, murder" does not signal a murder was commencing.

The simplest and easiest answer to what was meant by 'oh, murder" is this...Mary heard a knock on her door or window...(diddles awoke upstairs, waking Elizabeth)..and when she groggily answers the door she exclaims "oh, murder" in the same way someone would exclaim "oh, ****" today. It was just dismay at finding someone she wasn't expecting at 4am knocking her up.

This was of course her killer. And it would seem she quietly lets him in,...which answers another question, did she know her attacker? Unequivocally, yes.

[Joshua Rogan]

You're such a cynic, Simon. I'm sure in Kelly's case it would have been less a conscious thought process than a desperate, forlorn hope.
But the fact that any PC who did happen to be patrolling outside a private dwelling would be unable or unwilling to enter without this magic word - even if he could hear other screams and cries of obvious distress from within - explains (to me at least) the prevalence of a cry which seems so odd to modern ears.

[Simon Wood]

Hi Joshua,

I guess she was thinking that a couple of cops might have been patrolling Millers Court.

It's funny the things people imagine.

Regards,

Simon

[Joshua Rogan]

I've just noticed a possible explanation for the cry of "Oh, murder!", and why such cries were common, in an article about policing from the Star 3rd Oct;

The police are so fenced in by rules and regulations that they seem to be afraid to act on their own responsibility in a grave emergency. If a deadly fight is taking place in a house they will not enter unless they hear cries of "Murder"

[Michael W Richards]

Hi,

1. What happened between 1.30 and 3.30/3.45 in Kelly´s room?

2. Why did Prater hear "Oh, murder!"?

3."I left the room on the Thursday at five p.m., and returned to it at about one a.m. on Friday morning. I stood at the corner until about twenty minutes past one. No one spoke to me. McCarthy's shop was open, and I called in, and then went to my room. I should have seen a glimmer of light in going up the stairs if there had been a light in deceased's room, but I noticed none. The partition was so thin I could have heard Kelly walk about in the room. I went to bed at half-past one and barricaded the door with two tables. I fell asleep directly and slept soundly. A kitten disturbed me about half-past three o'clock or a quarter to four. As I was turning round I heard a suppressed cry of "Oh - murder!" in a faint voice. "

Regards Pierre

1. Mary passed out after letting Blotchy out.
2. Mary exclaimed that in annoyance at finding someone softly knocking at her door or window at almost 3:45am, while she was sleeping off her binge. She made the exclamation at her open door..which explains both how Elizabeth heard it and Sarah.
3. Diddles woke when the door or window on Marys room was tapped upon.

The easiest answers are often the ones embraced last.

[spyglass]

Hi Rocky,

well, what makes you think it is unlikely - and what could the alternative(s) be?

Regards Pierre

Hi Pierre,
A bit late I know, but how about the cry of "oh murder" was in fact Kelly coming home to find a murdered body laying in her room.
It would be enough to make you vomit for a long time, even up to 8/8.30 the following morning.

regards