Why Mary had to die.

[Mayerling]

In a forest of bodies - a battlefield.

Regards Pierre

Thank you finally. Perhaps you read the story.

Jeff

[Pierre]

I'm not entirely sure where you are going with this. It has not been established that MJK's murder was that of a copycat. If you ask me it has not been established that it was JtR's work, either, but it seems you are arguing that what Pierre is hinting at is false because JtR was not the perpetrator - which would itself be a fallacious line of reasoning as it assumes facts not in evidence, as it were.

Hi,

There are a lot of different views on who Jack the Ripper was. Depending on the evidence you believe you have, you get different theories. Those who think it was a copycat have other sources than mine. Sometime we have the same sources but interpret them differently.

I belive that his motive and MO makes it clear that this was the same killer.

Even if the MO in the case of Kelly seems different, we can compare it to the dismemeberment murders and find even more differences.

But the common thing for all of the murders including the C-5 and the three dismemberment murders is that he made sure that there was a fast discovery of the bodies as well as of the body parts.

He did not hide his victims.

According to my data, this is a very important thing.

Regards Pierre

[Pierre]

Pierre you stated that "He chose Kelly some time before Lord Mayor´s Day" and I understood you to say that he timed the discovery of the murder to cause maximum impact with regard to the Lord Mayor's parade.

However, you also believe he didn't have to wait for anything but took has opportunities as they presented. Though it sounds as if he may have bided his time in killing Kelly.

So this seems to raise some possibilities.

If Kelly had still been with Barnett properly, she would probably not have been involved in prostitution at the time of her murder. Therefore, Jack may not have had an opportunity to murder Kelly in that case - so if he had a plan to impact on the events of 9th November would have had to select another victim. Did he therefore have his other victims already selected too?

Well, you see, "would have" is not an historical issue. History is built on events that are established to have happened. This means that we can´t build the scientifically based history on evidence that are not there and on things that never happened.

Even having selected and murdered Kelly as he did, he couldn't have known that she would have been discovered when she was (and I think you hinted that he might have expected a later discovery). I mean he couldn't have known that McCarthy was going to send Bowyer to collect the rent that morning could he?

We can not know what the murderer did or didn´t know about McCarthy, or if he knew anything at all. There is no evidence for that. Perhaps one could generelly suppose that a lot of people wanted to go to Lord Mayor´s Show and that the murderer also could be assuming that. But there is no evedence for that either. We know a lot about Kelly and the murderer knew very little. But in some important ways he knew more than we do. He was there and we weren´t.

Regards Pierre

[MysterySinger]

Pierre you stated that "He chose Kelly some time before Lord Mayor´s Day" and I understood you to say that he timed the discovery of the murder to cause maximum impact with regard to the Lord Mayor's parade.

However, you also believe he didn't have to wait for anything but took has opportunities as they presented. Though it sounds as if he may have bided his time in killing Kelly.

So this seems to raise some possibilities.

If Kelly had still been with Barnett properly, she would probably not have been involved in prostitution at the time of her murder. Therefore, Jack may not have had an opportunity to murder Kelly in that case - so if he had a plan to impact on the events of 9th November would have had to select another victim. Did he therefore have his other victims already selected too?

Even having selected and murdered Kelly as he did, he couldn't have known that she would have been discovered when she was (and I think you hinted that he might have expected a later discovery). I mean he couldn't have known that McCarthy was going to send Bowyer to collect the rent that morning could he?

[Karl]

Interesting answer, Pierre. One might also say, in a morgue, or in a graveyard...

I wonder if the better question isn't : "how do you hide a murder?"

In which case, you'd only need to committ a murder at the same general time and in the same general place as a string of other murders credited to a brutal, unknown killer.

I'm not entirely sure where you are going with this. It has not been established that MJK's murder was that of a copycat. If you ask me it has not been established that it was JtR's work, either, but it seems you are arguing that what Pierre is hinting at is false because JtR was not the perpetrator - which would itself be a fallacious line of reasoning as it assumes facts not in evidence, as it were.

[DJA]

http://fwhitlock.com/category/killer-sauces/

[Pierre]

Interesting answer, Pierre. One might also say, in a morgue, or in a graveyard...

I wonder if the better question isn't : "how do you hide a murder?"

In which case, you'd only need to committ a murder at the same general time and in the same general place as a string of other murders credited to a brutal, unknown killer.

Sure, but I do not think Barnett is the killer of Kelly. I go where the sources lead me. And they do not lead me to Barnett but to another man.

Regards Pierre

[Pcdunn]

Interesting answer, Pierre. One might also say, in a morgue, or in a graveyard...

I wonder if the better question isn't : "how do you hide a murder?"

In which case, you'd only need to committ a murder at the same general time and in the same general place as a string of other murders credited to a brutal, unknown killer.

[Pierre]

Thanks Pat, you're right. I did hope Pierre would try to answer it. Apparently it was too unimportant for him to answer.

The next part of the question is, where do you hide a body?

Anyone ever read G. K. Chesterton's "The Sign of the Broken Sword"? Good Father Brown story.

Jeff

In a forest of bodies - a battlefield.

Regards Pierre

[Karl]

The only link I can think of between Mary Queen of Scots and De Keyser is they were both Catholic. I assume as an Irish girl, Mary Jane Kelly was too.

If memory serves, she was given a Catholic burial, at the suggestion of her landlord and Joe Barnett.

And Mayerling, I've got some space in my freezer if you want.

[Panderoona]

The only link I can think of between Mary Queen of Scots and De Keyser is they were both Catholic. I assume as an Irish girl, Mary Jane Kelly was too.

[Mayerling]

You hide a tree in a forest of other trees.

Thanks Pat, you're right. I did hope Pierre would try to answer it. Apparently it was too unimportant for him to answer.

The next part of the question is, where do you hide a body?

Anyone ever read G. K. Chesterton's "The Sign of the Broken Sword"? Good Father Brown story.

Jeff

[Mayerling]

I think I know the answer Jeff, but, in the spirit of Pierre's posts, I'm not going to tell you!

Love the cheekiness of your answer.

[Pcdunn]

You hide a tree in a forest of other trees.

[Karl]

I think I know the answer Jeff, but, in the spirit of Pierre's posts, I'm not going to tell you!