When was the estimation of when Mary took her last meal of fish and potatoes?

[curious4]

Hello Packers

There is always the possibilty that Mary cooked her supper herself, baking her potato in the embers and grilling the fish on the toasting fork, having begged/purloined the ingredients from the market.

Perhaps you are unaware that one theory regarding Mrs M is that she saw the killer dressed in Mary's clothes. I have read somewhere here of a mention by Mrs M that Mary seemed to have a cold (wrapped up in the shawl) and that "her eyes looked strange". Possibly Mrs M filled in the gaps in the conversation and "Mary" didn't actually say much at all, merely groaning a little and pointing to the vomit. The killer (or helper) may well have vomited afterwards.

Best wishes
C4

[curious4]

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

"I do have difficulty with anything involving anarchists, Irishmen and the like."

I believe both stories false. As I replied to John Graves, the descriptions of both A-man and Blotchy look as though they were taken from official HO/FO documents.

"Do we know just in what way Mr Blotchy was blotchy? Severe acne, alcoholic or syphilitic?"

Surely the second. Please see attached image.

(No, I am not suggesting this child drank. But the blotchy face represents Blotchy's condition.)

Cheers.
LC

Hello Lynn


No, that's not blotchy, that's flushed (she bears quite a strong resemblance to my granddaughter, by the way :-)).

I'd go for syphilitic m'self. Or suffering from boils perhaps.

Best regards

Gwyneth

[lynn cates]

conspiracy

Hello John. Thanks.

I hate the word conspiracy.

However:

1. There can be little doubt that some elements of the police and some associated with HM Government BELIEVED in some sort of Irish to do.

2. Some were also well aware about the dynamite plot from the year before and Frank Millen's role.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

trace

Hello Harry.

"The woman was found in Mary Kelly's room, identified by Mary Kelly's on/off lover, and Mary Kelly was never seen alive again after the murder. Ergo, it was Mary Kelly in the bed."

But who was Mary Kelly? We have no trace of her before the murder.

Cheers.
LC

[John G]

Hello John. Thanks.

"Do you think that most of the witness testimony is a bit suspect? For example, no one remembers selling Blotchy the quart of ale that Cox says he was carrying, despite his distinctive complexion."

As a matter of fact, I believe NEITHER story. I consider both trumped up.

But what intrigues me is that BOTH descriptions look exactly as though they were taken from official HO/FO documents.

I suggest these stories were planted.

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn,

Are you suggesting a major government conspiracy? If so, what do you believe the motive would have been and who do you think was involved?

[lynn cates]

not soliciting

Hello Abby. Thanks.

So, not soliciting then?

I can live with that.

Cheers.
LC

[John G]

Although I believe Caroline Maxwell was confused about seeing Kelly, probably mistaking her for someone else, here's an interesting quote from Walter Dew: " If Mrs Maxwell was a sensation-seeker-one of those women who live for the limelight-it would be easy to discredit her story. She was not. She seemed a sane and sensible woman, and her reputation was excellent." He continued, " In one way at least her version fitted into the facts as known. We knew that Marie had been drinking the previous night, and, as this was not a habit of hers, illness the next morning was just what might have been expected.

However, Maurice Lewis, I believe, can easily be discounted as a witness. Not only does a 10:00am sighting seem far too late, but he claimed she was drinking with several other people in the Ringers (Brittania). Therefore, as none of these other people came forward, if Lewis is correct we are dealing with a major conspiracy.

[lynn cates]

blotchy

Hello Gwyneth. Thanks.

"I do have difficulty with anything involving anarchists, Irishmen and the like."

I believe both stories false. As I replied to John Graves, the descriptions of both A-man and Blotchy look as though they were taken from official HO/FO documents.

"Do we know just in what way Mr Blotchy was blotchy? Severe acne, alcoholic or syphilitic?"

Surely the second. Please see attached image.

(No, I am not suggesting this child drank. But the blotchy face represents Blotchy's condition.)

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

stories

Hello John. Thanks.

"Do you think that most of the witness testimony is a bit suspect? For example, no one remembers selling Blotchy the quart of ale that Cox says he was carrying, despite his distinctive complexion."

As a matter of fact, I believe NEITHER story. I consider both trumped up.

But what intrigues me is that BOTH descriptions look exactly as though they were taken from official HO/FO documents.

I suggest these stories were planted.

Cheers.
LC

[packers stem]

What would Kelly do with a pint of milk, Mrs Maxwell had a kitchen at her disposal and Hubby coming home for his breakfast.
Mary Kelly doesn't strike me as a milk drinker somehow.

Drink it possibly. Some people might like to try it to settle their stomach.

[Rosella]

Hi Rosella
The next day after Marys body was found they discovered that there had been a large fire in her fire place (hot ehough to melt the spout of a hanging kettle) in which there were remains of burnt clothes among the ashes.

My take is that they probably started the fire once they arrived at her place on a cold rainy night and that Blotchy, after killing mary, threw some of the clothes that Marys friend had left there.
perhaps out of spite, or to keep the fire going so he could se what he was doing.

Hi, Abby,
Yes, I know about the clothing being burned, but that was later. What did they start the fire with in order to have a cosy drink etc after coming back from the pub? Some of the furniture? Blotchy would hardly have got inside and started throwing Mary (and Maria's) clothing on the fire while she was conscious. Nor would she be singing while she was being killed.

So Blotchy either didn't bother with a fire but just jumped into bed with Mary for a roll in the hay, which he may or may not have paid for and they may have had a drink from his pail afterwards, and more singing (the 19th century equivalent of a post-coital cigarette.)

He then left and she went out again and met Astrakhan Man, or, after a snooze, Blotchy killed her. That would make it between 1am, and 3am, when Mrs Cox finally retired for the night.

Incidentally, I once went on in a post about the clothing being burned and was asked by another poster if I'd ever tried it. He stated that the best way to put a fire out so it just smoulders and smokes is to throw clothing on it.

[Wickerman]

Hi Wickerman
Can't see it.He also saw her drinking the night before with Julia and Dan(Barnett?) and...they were playing pitch and toss IN millers court...Must have seen where she came out from

What would Kelly do with a pint of milk, Mrs Maxwell had a kitchen at her disposal and Hubby coming home for his breakfast.
Mary Kelly doesn't strike me as a milk drinker somehow.

[packers stem]

Does yesterday count.

Was working till the wee small hours had a kebab about 6:30 on the way home. Chicken, Cheese, Onion, Lettuce, Tomato and Avocado with Chilli Sauce.

Need anymore information.

I've also been know to have a meat pie for breakfast on my way to work, we had a pie cart on my way to work that was open 24/7

Queen Victoria could have knocked on the door with fish n chips brekkie
But shouldn't we stick with probability as opposed to remote possibility on the food.I've had a spag bol a couple of hours ago...yes ,i could have had weetabix and got up at 6 am to cook a spag bol...anything is possible,doesn't make it likely

[packers stem]

I struck me some time ago that what Maurice Lewis said might be more applicable to what Mrs Maxwell did.
He saw a woman go out to get some milk - that is what Maxwell did, not Kelly.
I had to wonder if Lewis was talking about Maxwell, but the reporter thought he was talking about Kelly.

Hi Wickerman
Can't see it.He also saw her drinking the night before with Julia and Dan(Barnett?) and...they were playing pitch and toss IN millers court...Must have seen where she came out from

[GUT]

I struck me some time ago that what Maurice Lewis said might be more applicable to what Mrs Maxwell did.
He saw a woman go out to get some milk - that is what Maxwell did, not Kelly.
I had to wonder if Lewis was talking about Maxwell, but the reporter thought he was talking about Kelly.

G'day Jon

I've had the same thought.

But didn't any of these people actually know each other.