Is Mary Jane's real name Mary Jane?

[Bridewell]

Has anything been found out about her being called "Fair Emma" ?

Pat......

The original 'Fair Emma' was Lady Hamilton who rose from humble origins, became the mistress of several wealthy men, then wife of Sir William Hamilton and mistress of Horatio Nelson. In her later years she became enormously fat and took to drink. I wonder if perhaps this was MJK being mocked for putting on airs.

[MayBea]

Maybe the Marie Jeanette was adopted from just plain Mary and a very unromantic middle name, like Freda or something!

Or just plane Jane...

[Bridewell]

Just checked Ancestry and there is a family of Hamiltons in the 1871 census, most of them Irish born - living in Carmarthen. Daughters include a Mary Anne and a Margaret Jane. Father was a Chelsea Pensioner Sergeant on the Permanent Staff of the Carmarthen Militia. Mother born in Southwark.

[Bridewell]

Looks to have been working as a school mistress in Pembroke in 1881 though.

[Bridewell]

So she was Welsh faking an Irish ancestry & accent. And no one noticed?? Just

Well she supposedly claimed (says Barnett) to have been born in Limerick but moved to Camarthen (or Carnarvon) at a young age. That account would fit with a Welsh accent. (Did any of her contemporaries claim that she spoke with an Irish accent - or is that accent an assumption made by subsequent researchers?)

[MayBea]

A lot of fiction books and movies give Mary an Irish accent somewheres described as "accurate".

I think the McCarthys eliminate an Irish accent, and the City Missionary, Charles Pateman, eliminates a Welsh one if "she is not a Welshwoman" means anything.

[Rosella]

Mary's accent might have been a mixture of both Welsh and Irish of course. IF Mary had been born in Limerick, as she told Joe Barnett, then her parents would have been an influence on their children's speech.

IF Mary went to Wales when she was young she might have had some schooling there and residence in a place does leave its imprint. People around Mary in the East End might not have been so familiar with a Welsh accent as an Irish one. Any lilt would have been thought of as Irish.

As an English-born person who's lived in Australia for decades I still get questions about what part of England I'm from, yet my accent must have faded since others don't notice it at all. It's a pity no-one asked Mary what part of Ireland or Wales she came from, and got details!

[MayBea]

We recently had a new recruit from Australia. I could tell his Aussie accent was a little "off". He was originally from Manchester as it turns out.

I try to listen for accents and try to find out where people are from. You can learn a lot in a job with a lot of turnover and lots of down-time.

I'd say I'm average at it but a lot better than most working class people who don't have the time or the attention to such things.

I doubt the average person in Whitechapel would have a clue. They'd know their own accents and maybe that of the majority if they aren't and that's about it.

McCarthy's parents were from Ireland so he'd recognize that. Would he know Welsh? Maybe from his showbiz activities and other business.

Then again, Mary could have gotten a bit of a Welsh accent, and maybe even some of the language, just from living in a Welsh neighborhood in any English city.

[Livia]

Hi Prosector,

I am so looking forward to your book, and am very glad to see you back here.

Ever since your first post on the subject of the victims, and the minimum level of knowledge, technical expertise or practical experience you believe their killer(s) needed to possess, I have been most intrigued by the objections raised by a number of posters, whose pet suspects would fall by the wayside if they are wrong and you are right. The irony is that they - like me - cannot boast the knowledge, technical expertise or practical experience required to reach a conclusion either way, and so they put their hands over their ears or try to cast doubts on your own credentials.

I will be even more intrigued to see the objections the usual suspect theorists will inevitably make when your book demonstrates how and why you are more qualified than they are - and I am - to comment on this aspect.

If you have also found the real Mary Kelly, and a viable new suspect, that will be the icing on my cake, but I do find the anatomy and knife skills issue equally fascinating, and I do believe it's high time this was resolved - by someone who really knows what they are talking about.

Love,

Caz
X

Me too, what Caz said.

Unfortunately, according to Amazon.com, the book won't
be available in the US until April of 2016.

Is there any way, Prosector, you can push your publisher
towards a more reasonable date for those of us in the States?

Even the kindle version would do.

Thanks,

Livia

[Paddy]

Another Mary Kelly ..Prostitute

Yes it seems it was a common name.
There one is in the District infirmary for Whitechapel union in the 1881 census...
She was said to be a prostitute born 1858 in Whitechapel..

Pat..

[GUT]

Yes it seems it was a common name.
There one is in the District infirmary for Whitechapel union in the 1881 census...
She was said to be a prostitute born 1858 in Whitechapel..

Pat..

And one of the most likely candidates I've ever seen.

[Paddy]

Yes Gut and she probably gave a false name too !
Pat....

[MayBea]

If Mary was youngish like 20, I wouldn't be skeptical about a boring, derivative name-change. If she was older, she might be more apt to stick to what she had if it was plain-old Mary Jane and just try on the flashy French Marie Jeanette.

The middle name is still the crux of the matter. Why Jane?

[Rosella]

She could have been called after an aunt or grandmother perhaps, and people would also sometimes be named after a godparent.

[GUT]

She could have been called after an aunt or grandmother perhaps, and people would also sometimes be named after a godparent.

Or sometimes just anyone that they think might be kind to her in some way.