Is Mary Jane's real name Mary Jane?

[Silverpaw]

If any remains still exist, one would have to take DNA samples from each bone set and compare it with samples from the descendants of her putative family. There might be a shortcut if notched bones were found - I can't believe JTR's knife didn't leave traces. There was also a brass plate, apparently :

http://www.casebook.org/dissertation...uneralmjk.html

I note that Marsh has done some good work with the cemetery in trying to pinpoint the grave - have you read his dissertation Prosector?

[Prosector]

The best source of good nuclear DNA is likely to be the teeth. They are slowest to decay and preserve DNA better than most other parts of the body. However, in very wet conditions even the teeth can disappear. Richard III's researchers were lucky because his grave conditions were relatively dry because it had been inside a building for much of the time. An exposed cemetery is another thing. The forensic undertakers told me that even if the grave was identified there could be anything from a mummified body to nothing at all.

I have talked to the cemetery staff and so have the undertakers and, currently, the conclusion is that would be extremely difficult to identify the grave accurately and even then it is likely that several bodies would have been interred on top of hers as it was a public grave site.

Prosector

[Trevor Marriott]

The best source of good nuclear DNA is likely to be the teeth. They are slowest to decay and preserve DNA better than most other parts of the body. However, in very wet conditions even the teeth can disappear. Richard III's researchers were lucky because his grave conditions were relatively dry because it had been inside a building for much of the time. An exposed cemetery is another thing. The forensic undertakers told me that even if the grave was identified there could be anything from a mummified body to nothing at all.

I have talked to the cemetery staff and so have the undertakers and, currently, the conclusion is that would be extremely difficult to identify the grave accurately and even then it is likely that several bodies would have been interred on top of hers as it was a public grave site.

Prosector

But her grave is specifically recorded is it not? row 67,grave 16.

So how can you be certain that there might be other persons buried in he same plot until you start to excavate?

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Jon Guy]

There might be a shortcut if notched bones were found - I can't believe JTR's knife didn't leave traces. There was also a brass plate, apparently

Indeed Robert, Kelly`s fifth and sixth vertebrae were deeply notched.

[caz]

Hi Prosector,

I am so looking forward to your book, and am very glad to see you back here.

Ever since your first post on the subject of the victims, and the minimum level of knowledge, technical expertise or practical experience you believe their killer(s) needed to possess, I have been most intrigued by the objections raised by a number of posters, whose pet suspects would fall by the wayside if they are wrong and you are right. The irony is that they - like me - cannot boast the knowledge, technical expertise or practical experience required to reach a conclusion either way, and so they put their hands over their ears or try to cast doubts on your own credentials.

I will be even more intrigued to see the objections the usual suspect theorists will inevitably make when your book demonstrates how and why you are more qualified than they are - and I am - to comment on this aspect.

If you have also found the real Mary Kelly, and a viable new suspect, that will be the icing on my cake, but I do find the anatomy and knife skills issue equally fascinating, and I do believe it's high time this was resolved - by someone who really knows what they are talking about.

Love,

Caz
X

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Prosector,

I am so looking forward to your book, and am very glad to see you back here.

Ever since your first post on the subject of the victims, and the minimum level of knowledge, technical expertise or practical experience you believe their killer(s) needed to possess, I have been most intrigued by the objections raised by a number of posters, whose pet suspects would fall by the wayside if they are wrong and you are right. The irony is that they - like me - cannot boast the knowledge, technical expertise or practical experience required to reach a conclusion either way, and so they put their hands over their ears or try to cast doubts on your own credentials.

I will be even more intrigued to see the objections the usual suspect theorists will inevitably make when your book demonstrates how and why you are more qualified than they are - and I am - to comment on this aspect.

If you have also found the real Mary Kelly, and a viable new suspect, that will be the icing on my cake, but I do find the anatomy and knife skills issue equally fascinating, and I do believe it's high time this was resolved - by someone who really knows what they are talking about.

Love,

Caz
X

Hi Caz

We already have had two independent forensic pathologists examine the facts and both tend to give somewhat different opinions with regards to the medical evidence from 1888.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Bridewell]

Hi Caz

We already have had two independent forensic pathologists examine the facts and both tend to give somewhat different opinions with regards to the medical evidence from 1888.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

Trevor, I don't want to take this thread too far off topic but did either pathologist make any comment about Bond's claims of (a) 2 hours to carry out the mutilation or (b) 6 hours for the onset of rigor mortis?

[Trevor Marriott]

Trevor, I don't want to take this thread too far off topic but did either pathologist make any comment about Bond's claims of (a) 2 hours to carry out the mutilation or (b) 6 hours for the onset of rigor mortis?

Bonds report was not considered by either pathologist. For the simple reason that Bonds report was extensively made up from him having sight of the doctors reports from all the other murders.

So on that basis he could not really agree or disagree with the doctors findings because he was not present at the crime scenes or the post mortems, apart from Kelly, he could simply give an opinion, which as we now know Victorian doctors opinions were sometimes nothing more than guesswork.

https://www.trevormarriott.co.uk

[Bridewell]

Thanks, Trevor.

[Paddy]

Has anything been found out about her being called "Fair Emma" ?

Pat......

[Rosemary]

Questions from newbie

So she was Welsh faking an Irish ancestry & accent. And no one noticed?? Just

[Pcdunn]

The popularity of the name Mary Jane in 1888 was almost zero. Same for the whole decade before that, as shown in the graph below, and probably for decades before that.
http://www.babynamewizard.com/baby-name/girl/maryjane

Would Mary Jane Kelly really have changed her name to Mary Jane from something else? And then changed it to Marie Jeanette?

This thought just came to me, but could "Mary Jane" be an Anglization of a name that sounded similar, but was originally in Irish or Welsh?
She might not have had a choice in the matter, if someone else (an employer) changed the name for her, or perhaps she felt she stood a better chance of getting a job if she sounded English.

[Rosella]

^^ It depends what job you mean! Apparently right up the 1950's from Victorian times onward it was the fashion for British prostitutes to adopt (sexier) French names, Mimi, Fifi and so forth, to attract clients.

Maybe the Marie Jeanette was adopted from just plain Mary and a very unromantic middle name, like Freda or something!

[caz]

Hi Caz

We already have had two independent forensic pathologists examine the facts and both tend to give somewhat different opinions with regards to the medical evidence from 1888.

www.trevormarriott.co.uk

So the opinions of another independent expert can't hurt then, Trev. Thanks.

We all know what happens when just one expert claims stuff about DNA and shawls.

Love,

Caz
X

[Robert]

Rosella, certainly a French element has been seen as an aphrodisiac by some :

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DzOsUAPZGn8