Miller's Court after Kelly...........

[Herlock Sholmes]

Couldn't agree more. It's a thick heavy book crammed with photos and stories about the East End, with several pages devoted exclusively to Jack the Ripper. I have a copy in mint condition I plan to auction off on Ebay soon. Keep an eye open!

Dr. John

Snap it up if you haven’t got it guys.

You can always trust Sholmes and Watson of course.

PS. I’ve waited ages to share a post with you just so that I could say that.

[Michael W Richards]

A comparatively thin partition that leaked light would also have leaked the sound of a scream, particularly if Kelly's head was close to the partition (i.e. on the bed) when she cried out; more so than if she'd uttered the scream at her door. With only a stairwell and her bedroom door in the way, Prater would have had a good chance of hearing such a scream from her room at the front of the house.

Im beginning to think Sam that simply rebutting is the point here, it doesn't seem to need any merit. Its just being contrary. Elizabeth heard the noise " as if from the court", not as if from the stairs, or as if from inside the house, nor was it as if from below my room. Sarah heard it as "if at her door', confirming the notion that the courtyard was the originating source. The sound would be amplified by the high stone walls encasing that courtyard.

[Dr. John Watson]

Isn’t there a photo in The East End Then And Now edited by Winston Ramsay?

If anyone hasn’t got this book of East End photographs I couldn’t recommend a book more highly. It’s a large thick hard back full of wonderful photos, information and reminiscences. I payed around £40 for mine when it came out and didn’t regret a penny of it. I’m amazed to find that Amazon used have a copy for £2.81!! Three other sellers have copies for less than £10.

Trust Herlock on this one guys.

Couldn't agree more. It's a thick heavy book crammed with photos and stories about the East End, with several pages devoted exclusively to Jack the Ripper. I have a copy in mint condition I plan to auction off on Ebay soon. Keep an eye open!

Dr. John

[Losmandris]

To be more accurate, that's the demolition of the Fruit and Wool Exchange buildings that were built on the site of the former Dorset Street. The latter had ceased to be long, long before 2015, and none of those buildings, nor indeed the road in front of them, were there at the time of the Ripper.

True. Though I believe the actual street, as was did survive, it became Duval street then a service road. It is now completely built over, so no trace what so ever.

[Sam Flynn]

I think that in order to reconcile the statement of Ms Prater there has to be some way for sound to reach her relatively unobstructed in her room

A comparatively thin partition that leaked light would also have leaked the sound of a scream, particularly if Kelly's head was close to the partition (i.e. on the bed) when she cried out; more so than if she'd uttered the scream at her door. With only a stairwell and her bedroom door in the way, Prater would have had a good chance of hearing such a scream from her room at the front of the house.

[Michael W Richards]

I think that in order to reconcile the statement of Ms Prater there has to be some way for sound to reach her relatively unobstructed in her room, and I think the window in the archway does present a possibility. The front room, the one over the shed, may have had a corner nook and that window may have been the airflow for it. She would have heard "oh-murder.. as if from the court" if that's correct, and with Marys door opening to the access to the archway just below it, it could have well been Mary. At that hour, likely greeting her killer at the door, and the exclamation was more probably one of exasperation rather than fright. As the phrase was generally used and might be construed as "bloody hell" might be today.

I believe the evidence support a sleeping Mary been called to the door by soft knocks on the window or door, she pads to the door and opens it to find someone she wasn't expecting or likely desiring at that moment in time. She makes her disappointed exclamation, and lets him in anyway,.. she gets back in bed, aligns herself to the right side of the bed and slips onto her side, facing that partition wall. It is while she is in that position that she is first attacked, her back to whomever was in the room.

Someone she mistakenly trusted.

[Sam Flynn]

Here's a rather sad video: 'The end of Dorset Street' September 2015 apparently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Un8aOMTHSc

To be more accurate, that's the demolition of the Fruit and Wool Exchange buildings that were built on the site of the former Dorset Street. The latter had ceased to be long, long before 2015, and none of those buildings, nor indeed the road in front of them, were there at the time of the Ripper.

[Losmandris]

Here's a rather sad video: 'The end of Dorset Street' September 2015 apparently:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Un8aOMTHSc

[Losmandris]

What was Dorset/Duval Street has been completely demolished now (in 2015/16 I think). The road has been built over with a new building (97 Commercial Road). Shame. Gone too, is the corner where the Britannia pub used to be. That's development for you.

Back in 2014 when I lived in London, I used to popover there once in a while, the road was always fenced off but you could see the the curb stone, where miller's court was allegedly located.

[Sam Flynn]

Click on 'view page' and read what it says: 'The group is standing only a few meters from where Mary Kelly was found and only a few blocks from the Ten Bells pub. ...…...'

If they are a "few blocks" from the Ten Bells, then they're not in the former site of Dorset/Duval Street, as the latter led straight into Commercial Street, onto which the Ten Bells faces. They're not in the former site of Dorset/Duval Street anyway, as those are not the buildings flanking the service road outside Whites Row Car Park, and the brickwork is clearly very old (the Whites Row and "Dorset Street" developments only dated back to the 1960s and 1970s). It looks very much to me like Parliament Court, which is indeed a "few blocks" from the Ten Bells, but it could be a similar alleyway elsewhere. Wherever it is, it is not "a few meters from where Mary Kelly was found", as no such alleyway existed to my knowledge in that immediate area, and I've been there frequently during the past ten years or so.

What building near Parliament Court can be seen outside the entrance?

Google Street View is your friend.

[Leanne]

Besides, the video in question was definitely not taken in the service road between that broken kerb-stone and White's Row Car Park, but in somewhere like Parliament Court off Artillery Passage. If they were "yards away" from the (former) Miller's Court, then they were something like 400 yards away.

Click on 'view page' and read what it says: 'The group is standing only a few meters from where Mary Kelly was found and only a few blocks from the Ten Bells pub. ...…...'

-- in December of 2010.

What building near Parliament Court can be seen outside the entrance?

[Leanne]

Nice try.

A poster called WARSPITE wrote that in 2009!

[Leanne]

Nice try.

I DID NOT WRITE THAT! It was in the post from 2009 that I quoted.
Read it again!!!!!!! Its on the third page of the 2009 Casebook archives that I gave a link for.

[Harry D]

Is this area still frequented by ladies of the night?

Nice try.

[Sam Flynn]

I was just looking at the 2009 posts to this site and they were discussing the closure of the alley that was once Dorset Street to the public and read somewhere that certain licenced tour guides were allowed.


What are the chances that this video have been shot on someone's phone when accessing the real remains of the Miller's court?

Zero. The remains of Miller's Court had been demolished and built over, at least twice, by the time that video was made. It was possible to imagine where Miller's Court used to be as its rough position was marked by the (modern) broken kerb-stone referred to in the post immediately above, but Dorset Street and Miller's Court were long gone by then.

Besides, the video in question was definitely not taken in the service road between that broken kerb-stone and White's Row Car Park, but in somewhere like Parliament Court off Artillery Passage. If they were "yards away" from the (former) Miller's Court, then they were something like 400 yards away.



The above route starts at the entrance to Parliament Court in Artillery Passage, and ends at approximately the location of the (former) Miller's Court.