Kelly Murder in the Evening Post

[Robert]

Hi Debs and Lynn

On the principle that a woman may live with a man and take his surname, but only marry him years later, I looked at Francis Boudry and Harriet Pallister who married in Newcastle 1899, but I cannot see any connection with the east end.

[lynn cates]

sis

Hello Debs, Robert. Found a tree that listed Harriet (sister) as witness.

Nix, and back to the old drawing board.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

1866

Hello Debs. Thanks.

Hmm, which is the Whitechapel b October 1866 lass?

I'll have another go, but thought the married name was the same?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hi Lynn and Robert,
I couldn't see any connection to Whitechapel with Lynn's Eliza. She seems to be the Eliza born and baptised in Lambeth mother's name Mary Ann, father William and sister Harriet according to the records?

[lynn cates]

tree

Hello Robert. Thanks for that.

What is her mum called in the tree? Could the William be a brother?

Cheers.
LC

[Robert]

Hi Debs and Lynn

Well it's true that ruling anyone out can be difficult, but I would tend to place Eliza Kirkin near the bottom of the list.

There is a tree with photos on Ancestry. Of course one can never simply trust these trees without duplicating the research, but re Eliza's mother being Harriet, this is simply from the marriage witness, and a marriage witness can be anyone. In the tree referred to, Eliza has a sister called Harriet.

If we could find a Harriet Fleming marrying a Bowdry or similar, that would be good. But I don't see why a newly-married woman would give her maiden name to the journalist unless she was frightened she'd be next on Jack's list. Maybe she was.

[lynn cates]

daughter

Hello Debs. Thanks.

Well, the register has her the daughter of William and Harriett.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

"What's in a name?"

Hello Robert. Thanks.

Whew! Thought I was losing my mind (no wisecracks! heh-heh).

Whitechapel names? Umm, let's not go there. Might end up at Cross purposes. (heh-heh)

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hi Lynn, Robert
Eliza Fleming could be anybody really as we have no age or clue about her to rule anyone out. She wasn't an inquest witness or anyone mentioned in the newspapers so she may not have even been a Spitalfields/Whitechapel local. She might have been a friend from Mary's Pennington St days, or the friend she visited who lived near the 'Elephant and Castle' or a relation of ex boyfriend Joseph. There's nothing to rule out any of the Eliza Flemings we come across in the records is there?
Lynn, I also considered that Eliza and Harriet may be related in some way but haven't had much luck with that line either.

[Robert]

Hi Lynn

No, it's 1887 all right. It's in the register.

I don't see how this can be the funeral attendee, for surely she would have given the reporter her married name?

[lynn cates]

date

Hello (again) David, Debs. Date looks like 1857, not 1887. The one who married Kirkin was given as born in 1866.

Puzzled.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

Fleming

Hello David, Debs. Found an Eliza Fleming born in Whitechapel 1866. Her wedding cert is posted below.

Mother was Harriett. Any good?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Yes David, good work again.

Debs, yes they're very tricky. Re Bowdry/Bowdery/Bowdrey etc, there was a whole load of them born in Abergavenny in the 50s including a Mary Jane 1855, but they nearly all seem to disappear off the face of the earth.

The Southwark ones seem to die.

I wondered if it might be a mishearing of 'Baldry' pronounced as in 'ballet' and found one in Baker's Row in 1881 and Brady St in 1891, but it's pretty desperate.

Re Fleming, there was one living George St in 1881 - presumably the street where Joe and Mary briefly lived? She doesn't seem to die. I don't know where she was in 91.

Hi Robert.
There were a few Bowderys about in Lambeth and Islington but I couldn't find a Harriet. I suspect a few with versions of the name will be hidden by mistranscriptions.
I couldn't find the George St Eliza Fleming in 1891 either. I did think about something David said about her possibly being related to Joseph Fleming-perhaps she was and we have settled on the wrong Joseph Flemming? Just a thought.

[Robert]

Yes David, good work again.

Debs, yes they're very tricky. Re Bowdry/Bowdery/Bowdrey etc, there was a whole load of them born in Abergavenny in the 50s including a Mary Jane 1855, but they nearly all seem to disappear off the face of the earth.

The Southwark ones seem to die.

I wondered if it might be a mishearing of 'Baldry' pronounced as in 'ballet' and found one in Baker's Row in 1881 and Brady St in 1891, but it's pretty desperate.

Re Fleming, there was one living George St in 1881 - presumably the street where Joe and Mary briefly lived? She doesn't seem to die. I don't know where she was in 91.

[lynn cates]

good work

Hello David. Thanks for posting this.

You do good work.

Cheers.
LC