MJK pregnancy

[Herlock Sholmes]

'

I'm 100% sure I know the ids of Jack, Astrakhan and Kelly and can demonstrate this in a compelling way. You'll have to wait for the book though for me to substantiate these claims.

In the meantime here's a list of some of the things that raise my suspicions about the Miller Court event:

- The sightings of Maxwell and Lewis (whose description seem to match the picture of Kelly in the IPN of the 17th November).
- The obliteration of the Miller's Court victim's face to allow a substitute to be made.
- The non-optimal way Kelly was identified. The hands and feet would have been more reliable than the eyes and ears on a obliterated face.
- The complete non-discovery to date of Kelly that supports the supposition that Kelly's narrative supplied by Barnett at the inquest is false.
- Barnett's nervousness at the inquest. Could be written off due understandable stress at his loss and not used to appearing at an inquest. Or because he was lying and was afraid of being caught out.
- The suspiciously world record abridged one-day inquest.
- Waiting for bloodhounds that were of little use at that particular murder scene. I believe Anderson, Arnold, Phillips and Warren are
all on record as discounting the usefulness of bloodhounds in the streets of Whitechapel.
- The sudden inexplicable loss of interest by the press in Kelly's murder.
- The non-appearance of an highly important witness (Hutchinson) at the inquest.

Apologies for being off-topic here.

Martyn

Any rough ideas about when the book will be out Martyn?

[mpriestnall]

Not sure id go with that theory either , other than the fact most people put it down to her being identified the next morning. Is there something a little more reliable you base this on? .

'

I'm 100% sure I know the ids of Jack, Astrakhan and Kelly and can demonstrate this in a compelling way. You'll have to wait for the book though for me to substantiate these claims.

In the meantime here's a list of some of the things that raise my suspicions about the Miller Court event:

- The sightings of Maxwell and Lewis (whose description seem to match the picture of Kelly in the IPN of the 17th November).
- The obliteration of the Miller's Court victim's face to allow a substitute to be made.
- The non-optimal way Kelly was identified. The hands and feet would have been more reliable than the eyes and ears on a obliterated face.
- The complete non-discovery to date of Kelly that supports the supposition that Kelly's narrative supplied by Barnett at the inquest is false.
- Barnett's nervousness at the inquest. Could be written off due understandable stress at his loss and not used to appearing at an inquest. Or because he was lying and was afraid of being caught out.
- The suspiciously world record abridged one-day inquest.
- Waiting for bloodhounds that were of little use at that particular murder scene. I believe Anderson, Arnold, Phillips and Warren are
all on record as discounting the usefulness of bloodhounds in the streets of Whitechapel.
- The sudden inexplicable loss of interest by the press in Kelly's murder.
- The non-appearance of an highly important witness (Hutchinson) at the inquest.

Apologies for being off-topic here.

Martyn

[FISHY1118]

Au contraire. But she wasn't the Miller's Court victim.

She's in the 1891 census if you know where to look!

Not sure id go with that theory either , other than the fact most people put it down to her being identified the next morning. Is there something a little more reliable you base this on? .

[Aethelwulf]

Is that the Camplin Street that still exists ... all the way over in what is now SE14...?!?

M.

That is the only one I can see, south of the river. IF it was genuine it may suggest someone who didn't have any constraints on his time to travel around, had the means to travel about..by horse and cart perhaps...

[Mark J D]

MORE WRITING ON A WALL.
It is stated that the words, "I shall do another murder and will receive her heart," have been found written in chalk on the footway in Camplin-street, Deptford.

Is that the Camplin Street that still exists ... all the way over in what is now SE14...?!?

M.

[mpriestnall]

Mary Jane Kelly didn't exist.

Get over it, guys.

Au contraire. But she wasn't the Miller's Court victim.

She's in the 1891 census if you know where to look!

[Aethelwulf]

and it is open to debate if the heart was taken from Miller's Court.

I posted this on another thread - press report from the 29th October, prior to Kelly. Could just be a coincidence. If genuine, only reason I can think for the location is frustration at the large police presence in Whitechapel and this was a diversionary tactic to make them look elsewhere. Shame non if these messages were ever photographed.

MORE WRITING ON A WALL.
It is stated that the words, "I shall do another murder and will receive her heart," have been found written in chalk on the footway in Camplin-street, Deptford.

[FISHY1118]

Mary Jane Kelly didn't exist.

Get over it, guys.

Really , ,Do tell

[Simon Wood]

Mary Jane Kelly didn't exist.

Get over it, guys.

[FISHY1118]

Natasha, Rosella,

If you're investigating the possibility that Mary had TB, you might consider Mary Jane Wilson as a candidate for MJK. MJW's husband died in the Liverpool Workhouse infirmary of TB in January 1890.

MJW ne. Kelly had a child, registered late in Liverpool in 1887, but we now know the Salvation Army in the East End of London had midwifery, nursing, and family finding services which probably included help in returning to their family. Liverpool would only be a 4 1/2 hour train ride at the time.

S0 are we to believe mary jane kelly had a child in 1887 ? can anyone confirm this .?

[Natasha]

Natasha, Rosella,

If you're investigating the possibility that Mary had TB, you might consider Mary Jane Wilson as a candidate for MJK. MJW's husband died in the Liverpool Workhouse infirmary of TB in January 1890.

MJW ne. Kelly had a child, registered late in Liverpool in 1887, but we now know the Salvation Army in the East End of London had midwifery, nursing, and family finding services which probably included help in returning to their family. Liverpool would only be a 4 1/2 hour train ride at the time.

That would make sense if she was indeed the woman Cook was talking to/about.

[MayBea]

Natasha, Rosella,

If you're investigating the possibility that Mary had TB, you might consider Mary Jane Wilson as a candidate for MJK. MJW's husband died in the Liverpool Workhouse infirmary of TB in January 1890.

MJW ne. Kelly had a child, registered late in Liverpool in 1887, but we now know the Salvation Army in the East End of London had midwifery, nursing, and family finding services which probably included help in returning to their family. Liverpool would only be a 4 1/2 hour train ride at the time.

On opening the thorax it was found that the right lung was minimally adherent by old firm adhesions. The lower part of the lung was broken and torn away. The left lung was intact. It was adherent at the apex and there were a few adhesions over the side. In the substances of the lung there were several nodules of consolidation.

[Rosella]

Mary may well have been a patient earlier in an infirmary and a lack of good food and her lifestyle may well have left dormant TB cells in her lungs. I don't know that we can draw too much more from it though.

TB was so prevalent in urban populations in First world countries in the 19th century that probably lots of people would have had similar damaged lungs, especially among the very poor. It killed more than 4 million people in England and Wales alone between 1851 and 1910, most from lung disease.

[Natasha]

Hi All

I thought maybe the following may be of use.

Since Barnett said Kelly had said she was in an infirmary when younger, I believe this to be true (though there are elements of the story I think Barnett may have made up)

On opening the thorax it was found that the right lung was minimally adherent by old firm adhesions. The lower part of the lung was broken and torn away. The left lung was intact. It was adherent at the apex and there were a few adhesions over the side. In the substances of the lung there were several nodules of consolidation.


Now the nodules of consolidation, I think, maybe the effects of a new infection. Upon looking into this I found the following very interesting:

primary infection of TB can remain dormant and remerge into the secondary phase, if reinfected or the body defenses are lowered for example by, malnorishment, injury or another disease or as a result of childbirth

[Debra A]

You are correct, Debra, about the incorrect conclusion that Rose Mylett had never given birth. The conclusion, and/or the evidence for the conclusion, belonged to Dr. Brownfield and not Dr. Bond.

An old thread had Bond making the conclusion but, in actuality, he only did a re-examination for cause of death on behalf of Anderson.

However, I was just messaging with someone on this forum who stated adamantly that Mary Kelly was never pregnant because Bond would have said it.

Either way, you've made the case for me. Kelly could have given birth just as Rose did.

,

It certainly can't be ruled out that she was a mother at some point in the past, Maybea.
Bond would have said something if she was pregnant -but there is no actual description of the condition of any of the organs so I don't know for sure.