MJK2/MJK3 Hand comparison

[Phil Carter]

I appreciate what you say GUT, but the "Anything is possible" file is fit to burst already.....

The Fringe element tend to promote whatever is possible, while the more conventional members prefer to look for what is likely.

Hello Jon,

Likeleyhood isnt fact and its degree of veracity is based on individual opinion.

at least this percieved fringe element has shown what he is trying to do about His doubts. (see previous post)

Phil

[Wickerman]

Hello Jon,

Likeleyhood isnt fact and its degree of veracity is based on individual opinion.

Hi Phil.

Fact is unattainable, on this particular issue our sights need to be set somewhere below 'fact' but above 'possible'.

[Phil Carter]

Hi Phil.

Fact is unattainable, on this particular issue our sights need to be set somewhere below 'fact' but above 'possible'.

Hello Jon,

Agreed- which is why I personally have gone for (withnn specific fields please note) an expert view from 5 unnattached people to do exactly that.

We all get frustrated by running after our own tails here. Circular discussion with little give from entrenched views. Even the hand position. Richardh is doing his level best to be fair I admit though- fair do's.

Phil

[GUT]

G'day Jon

I appreciate what you say GUT, but the "Anything is possible" file is fit to burst already.....

The Fringe element tend to promote whatever is possible, while the more conventional members prefer to look for what is likely.

Yes I agree that the "Anything is possible file" is full, but evidence is also pretty scarce.

However what I was addressing was

You think the picture was not taken by a professional photographer?

(..get your hand out'a the picture Watkins before the damn flash......Aw-$hit! )

Which seems to imply that no professional photographer could ever include an assistant's arm in the shot, if misunderstood you I'm sorry.

[Debra A]

My opinion:

I am firmly of the opinion that we are seeing a left hand in MJK3 and when I created this 3D setup (below) I came to the conclusion that, IF MJK3 is a mock-up (or fake) of the MJK crime scene, then whoever was responsible got the left hand pretty much spot on in terms of positioning. The dots match up in both images.

2) The hand showing in MJK3 is the LEFT hand.

Exactly, Richard. It would have had to have been a 'mock-up' based exactly on MJK1 if not real. The photographer accidentally getting his hand in shot or a deliberate 'prank' where a right hand was used because the faker didn't know left from right or deliberately used a right hand as some sort of message don't really add up.

[Debra A]

It is a bloodstain. The gap between the little finger, and third finger begins where the black triangular shape is situated.

Definitely.
I'd like to see how it looks without the bloodstain incorporated as part of the structure. Any chance, Richard?

[richardh]

Eh, Wot? Bloodstain incorporated where? in my hand model or the original MJK3? I didn't put any bloodstain on my hand model. It's just the way my hand sort of 'creased' when I positioned it. Admittedly I think my hand (the model's not mine!) needs to be remodelled to better fit the size and thickness of MJK's.

Am i getting the wrong end of the stick here? Sorry.

Definitely.
I'd like to see how it looks without the bloodstain incorporated as part of the structure. Any chance, Richard?

[Debra A]

Eh, Wot? Bloodstain incorporated where? in my hand model or the original MJK3? I didn't put any bloodstain on my hand model. It's just the way my hand sort of 'creased' when I positioned it. Admittedly I think my hand (the model's not mine!) needs to be remodelled to better fit the size and thickness of MJK's.

Am i getting the wrong end of the stick here? Sorry.

To explain-I think you have gone too far up into the hand with the gap (perhaps thinking the bloodstain was part of the divide between the two fingers?) I think Observer is correct and the divide begins between the two fingers at the black triangle. In order to show it as a thumb the divide has been taken too far up (as it would need to be to be a thumb). If you brought it down it would illustrate more how un-thumblike it really is. I think that's why the little finger looks too long in your model too.

I'm not very good at explaining it, maybe someone else who understands what I'm saying can describe it better. I haven't paintshop on this computer to illustrate what i mean either.

[Debra A]

This roughly demonstrates what I mean.
I've softened the scratch or bloodstain that I believe is causing the illusion of a thumb web .I also lightened some of the shadow between the two fingers.

On the second picture I drew in a purple line as I think this the top of an object (sheeting?) that is between the hand and camera, obscuring the bottom of the curled under left finger a little.

[richardh]

I'm on to it Debra, with a new improved hand model.

This roughly demonstrates what I mean.
I've softened the scratch or bloodstain that I believe is causing the illusion of a thumb web .I also lightened some of the shadow between the two fingers.

On the second picture I drew in a purple line as I think this the top of an object (sheeting?) that is between the hand and camera, obscuring the bottom of the curled under left finger a little.

[Brenda]

.

God help me...I see a thumbnail. I'm going to lie down for a little while and rest me eyeballs....

[Phil Carter]

God help me...I see a thumbnail. I'm going to lie down for a little while and rest me eyeballs....

Hello Brenda... don't worry.. it will be photoshopped out soon enough. :-)

PS... go into this casebook site... go look at the photos section... go click on MJK... and then the MJK3 photo... then enlarge it....you'll need a laugh when you see that!

Phil

[Debra A]

I'm on to it Debra, with a new improved hand model.

Thanks Richard.

[Brenda]

.

Hello Brenda... don't worry.. it will be photoshopped out soon enough. :-)

PS... go into this casebook site... go look at the photos section... go click on MJK... and then the MJK3 photo... then enlarge it....you'll need a laugh when you see that!

Phil

Phil, I'm scared to say in a public forum what I think I see, what is it I'm SUPPOSED to be seeing?

[Amanda Sumner]

Phil, I'm scared to say in a public forum what I think I see, what is it I'm SUPPOSED to be seeing?

I think the easiest answer to that, Brenda, is just agree with everyone else. :-)