MJK1 and MJK3

[Debra A]

The trouble with Poser and all the other software that lets you manipulate figures and claims to be anatomically correct is that they don't have realistic limitations on the kind of positions someone can place a digit, limb or body in. Can a thumb really present like that? I once broke five fingers and bent them backwards on a model...just to be spiteful you understand.

[richardh]

Thanks Amanda,
Unfortunately, the renders do not help the argument either way apart from showing that both opinions are equally valid.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Amanda/Richardh,

Just out of curiosity- that's a very clear triangle on the hand on the last photo put up (by richardh)

Would one of you be so kind and zoom in on it and show me the results?

Thank you kindly

best wishes

Phil

[richardh]

Debra,
that thumb is in a position easily manageable by a real hand. I've been siting here positioning my own hands into all sort of odd tangents. I think both those renders (left and right) show that either hand could very easily fall into those positions.

The trouble with Poser and all the other software that lets you manipulate figures and claims to be anatomically correct is that they don't have realistic limitations on the kind of positions someone can place a digit, limb or body in. Can a thumb really present like that? I once broke five fingers and bent them backwards on a model...just to be spiteful you understand.

[Debra A]

Debra,
that thumb is in a position easily manageable by a real hand. I've been siting here positioning my own hands into all sort of odd tangents. I think both as you can those renders (left and right) show that either hand could very easily fall into those positions.

Stick your left arm out, palm up. bring your fingers in towards the palm, bend your wrist as close to 90% to your arm as you can, raise your arm bending at the elbow towards your face, mouth level is best, have look.

[Brenda]

.

Here is the "split femur"....I remembered this from the boards years and years ago. Hope this works.....

[Debra A]

I bet MrB can get his thumb in that position though, the length of his fingers...

[Brenda]

.

I also remember from years ago people saying that it appeared to them that whoever took the photo pulled her chemise down, to protect her modesty. Which begs the question, why even take the photo?

I, myself, can't tell a damn thing that's going on in the photo.

[Debra A]

Here is the "split femur"....I remembered this from the boards years and years ago. Hope this works.....

The split femur as claimed by Nick Warren, surgeon, Brenda?

[richardh]

Hello Amanda/Richardh,

Just out of curiosity- that's a very clear triangle on the hand on the last photo put up (by richardh)

Would one of you be so kind and zoom in on it and show me the results?

Thank you kindly

best wishes

Phil

Here you are:

[Rob Clack]

Have any of us mentioned conspiracy? I certainly have not. I said that Millen may well have acquired it, genuinely believing that was what the photo was. It was sent off by the family with other, genuine photographs, and accepted as part of that group.. It is unfortunate the photo can not be traced before Millen acquired it, or where he got it from.
I don't believe there has been a deliberate attempt to fool except by the people who did the original mock up, probably sometime in the '70's.
I think Phil is right. It's only by looking and questioning do we learn anything new.

Phil is a conspiracy nut.

I have no issues with people questioning things, I do it myself and will keep on doing it. The problem is, you and Phil have closed your minds and you are just looking for people to agree with you. As I have already said (which you ignored) you will not get a definitive answer here. All you will get is somebody elses opinion, so that is why I suggested you go to the owners or go and have a look at the original. You can't be arsed to do this, which is fine, so you can't expect people to take you seriously since you can't be bothered to do any research. Also if there is cast iron proof it is from 1888 you will still not except it.
Speaking of Phil, and this is what I mean by doing some research and not to rely on other peoples opinions. A few years back he said the Fosters drawing of Mitre Square was a fake. Why? because he enlarged a very poor low resolution copy which made the date look like Saturday 50th September. Now this was a bit blurry and not something to base a judgement on. So I posted a much better quality version which clearly said Saturday 30th September. But he still wouldn't have it. So I suggested going to have a look at the original, which anyone can look at. He couldn't be bothered even though not long afterwards he was within 20 minutes travelling time of where the drawing is. Instead he had a photo taken of himself in Mitre Square exposing his knobbly knees. I wont post it because it is more gruesome then the MJK3 photo.

So if you want to ally yourself with Phil, good luck to you.

Rob

[Trevor Marriott]

Here is the "split femur"....I remembered this from the boards years and years ago. Hope this works.....

I hope no one will mind if I enter the fray at this time and add my ten pence worth.

The photo shows the bed. It shows the duvet at the bottom of the bed. On the bed it shows the pillow. Presumably Kelly s head was on the pillow at ghe time of death.

The body has been removed from the bed and placed on the floor presumably. That natural movement of taking the body from the bed and its position on the bed, and then putting it on the floor has not changed the bodies position. In my opinion what can be seen in clearly the right hand.

Why would they take the body off the bed and reverse it in any event. That would be an un-natural movement for all concerned ?

[Simon Wood]

Hi Rob,

I'm going dangerously out on a limb here, but nevertheless willing to bet there's no more toys left in your pram.

Regards,

Simon

[Debra A]

Thanks for the pm forward, Neil.
Changes nothing.

[Debra A]

I hope no one will mind if I enter the fray at this time and add my ten pence worth.

The photo shows the bed. It shows the duvet at the bottom of the bed. On the bed it shows the pillow. Presumably Kelly s head was on the pillow at ghe time of death.

The body has been removed from the bed and placed on the floor presumably. That natural movement of taking the body from the bed and its position on the bed, and then putting it on the floor has not changed the bodies position. In my opinion what can be seen in clearly the right hand.

Why would they take the body off the bed and reverse it in any event. That would be an un-natural movement for all concerned ?

Reverse what?