Finding more out about MJK

[MayBea]

But by what name would she be mentioned?

I still don't see why you'd have to give up the name Mary Jane Kelly. Kelly could be maiden or married name.

It's not often or ever that someone has an Irish or English alias and renders it in another language.

Unless she liked Marie Antoinette, I think she was long attached to the name Jeannette, because she was born Mary Jane.

Some people think she might have pronounced it Marry like Marie Lloyd, and I agree. Then why keep or add the Jeanette.

[Natasha]

Hi Everyone

What if MJK was actually born in France, her family may have known McCarthy’s family. I found this at ancestry in the French collections:

Jeanne Gabrielle Kelly
Mother: Marie Gabrielle Petit
Father: Jean Kelly

I haven’t got a subscription so can not view all the info on this entry

I found it interesting because Barnett put on MJK’s death certificate Marie Jeanette Kelly. I think its worth investigating weather Kelly was actually born in France.

[GUT]

G'day Natasha

Hi Everyone

What if MJK was actually born in France, her family may have known McCarthy’s family. I found this at ancestry in the French collections:

Jeanne Gabrielle Kelly
Mother: Marie Gabrielle Petit
Father: Jean Kelly

I haven’t got a subscription so can not view all the info on this entry

I found it interesting because Barnett put on MJK’s death certificate Marie Jeanette Kelly. I think its worth investigating weather Kelly was actually born in France.

I don't think Marie Jeanette Kelly has been researched anywhere near enough. My goodness even her death certificate uses the name. Yet today we all say it was not her real name.

[GUT]

G'day MayBea

I still don't see why you'd have to give up the name Mary Jane Kelly. Kelly could be maiden or married name.

It's not often or ever that someone has an Irish or English alias and renders it in another language.

Unless she liked Marie Antoinette, I think she was long attached to the name Jeannette, because she was born Mary Jane.

Some people think she might have pronounced it Marry like Marie Lloyd, and I agree. Then why keep or add the Jeanette.

See what I said to Natasha above, any reason you prefer Mary Jane over Marie Jeanette.

[GUT]

I should add maybe someone, probably MayBea Debor Chris, has already gone down this path and I haven't seen it.

[MayBea]

See what I said to Natasha above, any reason you prefer Mary Jane over Marie Jeanette.

An Ancestry search for Mary Jane, unless you only want Mary Janes, will turn up records for both Mary Janes or Marie Jeanettes.

There are only three Marie Jeanettes recorded in England for all the 1800s.

Some, females especially, have been known to adopt French versions of their name. My own sister did that for a time which I found very unusual.

[MayBea]

The following baby names link has Marie 45th favorite and Jeanette 225th favorite in the 1880s. The names rose in favor in the 1890s, Marie rising to 10th and Jeanette to 217.

http://www.baby2see.com/names/1880s.html

But you can see that they were not popular as first names individually and almost unheard of together so it would be very unlikely that she would pull the name out of thin air.

It's likely a "dressing up" of a given name, in my opinion. If MJK could come up with any alias she wanted, I doubt it would be Mary Jane. Jane has long had the connotation of "plain Jane".

[GUT]

An Ancestry search for Mary Jane, unless you only want Mary Janes, will turn up records for both Mary Janes or Marie Jeanettes.

There are only three Marie Jeanettes recorded in England for all the 1800s.

Some, females especially, have been known to adopt French versions of their name. My own sister did that for a time which I found very unusual.

Thanks MayBea, only three! Is that living in UK at time or BDM?

[MayBea]

These were from the census records. One from Switzerland born 68, one from Bristol born 69, and one born 84 no birthplace.

FreeBMD has three also all born 1887 onward. The name got popular during the 1960s.

It would be interesting to find out what the birth name of the one born in Bristol if it wasn't Marie Jeanette. At 19 in 1888, she'd still be too young for MJK.

P.S. The girl from Bristol was born Mary Jane and changed her name to Marie Jeanette sometime between 1881 and 1894, perhaps inspired by MJK. The one born in 84 was an orphan and the record of her comes from 1891. So MJK could still have been the first person we know to go from Mary Jane to Marie Jeanette, if that is what she did.

[GUT]

G'day MayBea

P.S. The girl from Bristol was born Mary Jane and changed her name to Marie Jeanette sometime between 1881 and 1894, perhaps inspired by MJK. The one born in 84 was an orphan and the record of her comes from 1891. So MJK could still have been the first person we know to go from Mary Jane to Marie Jeanette, if that is what she did.

Thanks for the info.

An interesting find on Mary Jane from Bristol.

Were these all Kelly as surname?

[MayBea]

The surnames were Sinnet and "O'Conner", and the one from Switzerland married a Nares from Wales. She was probably Swiss-French.

The Marriage Index has a Vidler, a Wall, and a Hamon, but none to Ramsey Nares.

[Paddy]

Death Certificates

I was wondering what proof one has to give to receive a death certificate?
On free BMD there appears to be two entrants for her death. Is this legal I wonder? I did find an adopted person recently in 1940s had two birth certificates in both birth and adopted name.

Deaths Dec 1888
Davies Marie Jeanette 25 Whitechapel 1c 211 -
KELLY Marie Jeanette 25 Whitechapel 1c 211

I do know someone on the boards did pick this up recently, but I cant find the post to credit them.....

Pat......

[Natasha]

Hi Everyone

What if MJK was actually born in France, her family may have known McCarthy’s family. I found this at ancestry in the French collections:

Jeanne Gabrielle Kelly
Mother: Marie Gabrielle Petit
Father: Jean Kelly

I haven’t got a subscription so can not view all the info on this entry

I found it interesting because Barnett put on MJK’s death certificate Marie Jeanette Kelly. I think its worth investigating weather Kelly was actually born in France.

Can anyone find out about the above entry at ancestry etc. I think it would be feasible that Kelly may have been from France for the following reasons:

1 Kelly spoke of France

2 Kelly’s father it was suggested was called John, what if it was, but it was in fact spelt Jean. maybe her brother was called henri jean

It appears Kelly never spoke of her mother. Why? Could she have died giving birth to Kelly?

I thought I would add this bit of info, there was an explosion in Magny Mine in Ronchamp near vesoul France in 1879. 22 men were killed, leaving 9 widows, could one of these be Kelly?

[Livia]

Michael Maybrick's sister in law was named Marie Jeanette
Withers Quinn. She was married to a police constable.
Laura Withers Maybrick left her estate to Marie Jeanette's
daughter.

[GUT]

The surnames were Sinnet and "O'Conner", and the one from Switzerland married a Nares from Wales. She was probably Swiss-French.

The Marriage Index has a Vidler, a Wall, and a Hamon, but none to Ramsey Nares.

Thanks MayBea