Finding more out about MJK

[packers stem]

I certainly believe she was an accomplice along with the watcher opposite the court but probably not party to the murder itself

[Natasha]

Would it be plausible that MJK was somehow involved with the other crimes and knew the ripper personally? she may have been an unwilling accomplice It would explain why she was scared of a ‘man’.

The injuries inflicted were to such a degree they rendered the victim unrecognisable. Was this to wipe out her identity, not just for ID purposes, but was this crime demonstrating a hatred that suggested that the victim should never have had existed in the first place?

[Natasha]

Natasha.
You enthusiasm is great. It is very easy to pluck Davies or Kellys in Great Britain out of a random census record, There are hundreds of them. Serious research needs a lead,or a theory a follow through several censuses, births marriages and deaths and any other records.
Random records alone are not informative. Trekking through the mire of Kellys and Davies is a nightmare.
If you have a theory such as your' kelly not dead ' Try and collect as much evidence as you can from reputable sources.

Miss Marple

P.S grave robbing in 88? A no no. A knowledge of Victorian Britain helps.

Hi Miss Marple

Thank you

I will indeed research further into this

[GUT]

Indeed so, and the reasons for being disowned sometimes were bizarre by modern standards. I remember one celebrity on BBC's Who Do You Think You Are?, whose ancestor was airbrushed out of a (decidedly working-class) family tree for becoming a billiards/snooker umpire.

Or as with one of my family for marrying someone of the wrong political persuasion.

[Sam Flynn]

the real MJK could have been disowned or disavowed by her family but they didn't have to be prominent to do that.

Indeed so, and the reasons for being disowned sometimes were bizarre by modern standards. I remember one celebrity on BBC's Who Do You Think You Are?, whose ancestor was airbrushed out of a (decidedly working-class) family tree for becoming a billiards/snooker umpire.

[MayBea]

Was looking on the census list and found this entry quite interesting:

Name: Jennet Davies
Age (Original): 16
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1865
...
Event Place: Eglwysilan, Glamorganshire, Wales

[John Davies:
Head, 44 Born in: Wales

Changing the subject, do you think she may have been related to somebody prominent, and maybe was disowned. It explains why nobody came to look for her.

Ancestry has this Jennet linked to one that married a Robert Gordon Elliot with her father John Davies 63 widowed living with them in 1901. I believe this is the correct Jennet so she's unofficially eliminated, although it wouldn't have been that easy without trying the ready Ancestry links on the census pages.

I do believe the real MJK could have been disowned or disavowed by her family but they didn't have to be prominent to do that. It could have been almost a Ryan's Daughter kind of thing.

What do you think of the possibility she told some truthful details of her loved ones, such as first names that wouldn't give away her identity?

[DVV]

Ovale

Wrong-shaped ball.

Awesome, definitely awesome.

[Sam Flynn]

And I'm glad you're not watching football.

Wrong-shaped ball, Dave. We all have our cross to bear

[DVV]

I see what you mean, Gareth.
And I'm glad you're not watching football.

[Sam Flynn]

As Mr. Barnett has posted above, this one is also listed as having been born in Whitechapel - a local girl.

The fact that so few locals came forward to identify Kelly rather militates against her being a local herself. Of those who knew anything substantial about her, it's perhaps significant that they all report her arriving in the East End only a few years earlier. Granted they may largely have been regurgitating what she told them, but you'd think that someone would have smelled a rat if her "outsider" story hadn't been at least partly true.

[miss marple]

Natasha.
You enthusiasm is great. It is very easy to pluck Davies or Kellys in Great Britain out of a random census record, There are hundreds of them. Serious research needs a lead,or a theory a follow through several censuses, births marriages and deaths and any other records.
Random records alone are not informative. Trekking through the mire of Kellys and Davies is a nightmare.
If you have a theory such as your' kelly not dead ' Try and collect as much evidence as you can from reputable sources.

Miss Marple

P.S grave robbing in 88? A no no. A knowledge of Victorian Britain helps.

[Natasha]

Was looking on the census list and found this entry quite interesting:

Name: Jennet Davies
Age (Original): 16
Gender: Female
Birth Year: 1865
Birthplace: Wales
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Marital Status: Single
Occupation: Gen Labourer
Address: Ynysangharad St
Event Place: Eglwysilan, Glamorganshire, Wales

Household

John Davies:
Head, 44 Born in: Wales

Margaret Davies:
Wife, 53 Born in: Wales

Price Davies:
Son , 20, Born in: Wales

Jennet Davies:
Daughter ,16 born in:Wales

William Davies:
Son, 14 Born in: Wales

Henry Payne:
Lodger, 20 Born in: Somerset Wales


I found it interesting because of the name Jennet and age seem to roughly match that of MJK

This Jennet's father is called John, and works as an iron striker. MJKs father was said to have worked in the iron works.

I know it is said that she was Irish, had about 6/7 brothers but maybe this is what has confused the issue and has made it difficult to trace her. This Davies family came from Wales, but maybe her Grandparents came from Ireland.

This Jennet Davies vanishes after the 1881 census, have searched in census records for USA, Australia and so on, and could not find her, there was no DOD etc. She could have changed her name.


Also found this entry:


Name: Mary R Davies
Event Type: Census
Event Date: 1871
Gender: Female
Age: 7
Relationship to Head of Household: Daughter
Birthplace: Llanelly, Carmarthenshire
Schedule Type: Household
Registration District: Llanelly
Sub-District: Llanelly
Parish: Llanelly
County: Carmarthenshire

Household
John Davies, head 42 Mardrian, Carmarthenshire
Emma Davies, Wife 45 Llandovery, Carmarthenshire
Henry Davies, Son 16 Llanelly, Carmarthenshire
John T Davies, Son 14 Llanelly, Carmarthenshire
David Davies , Son 12 Llanelly, Carmarthenshire

Changing the subject, do you think she may have been related to somebody prominent, and maybe was disowned. It explains why nobody came to look for her.

There was a welsh-born leather merchant named Sir (William) Howell Davies he was also a Liberal politician. People have suggested that MJK came from a family who were 'well to do people'.

Could there be a connection?

[Fleetwood Mac]

Hi Fleet.,

I was basing my opinion on my own East End Irish ancestors, who seem to have shed all religious affiliation within a few generations.

On the other hand, my wife's family were Irish Catholic Geordies and remain so still.

Regards,

MrB

Fair enough, Mr Barnett, seems your experience down in that there London was slightly different to mine and we can only go off what we know to a certain extent. Round here, there remains a catholic end to the cemetery and a protestant end. Catholics are buried with Catholics; Protestants are buried with Protestants. Same cemetery but different ends. They all drank together in the workmen's club but staunch is staunch and I suppose this is a more isolated part of the country and so old habits die hard. Up here, it just wouldn't have been done.

[MrBarnett]

Hi Fleet.,

I was basing my opinion on my own East End Irish ancestors, who seem to have shed all religious affiliation within a few generations.

On the other hand, my wife's family were Irish Catholic Geordies and remain so still.

Regards,

MrB

[MrBarnett]

Sam,

A great piece of research that warrants some consideration. And thanks for the grace with which you offered it to us 'Noobs'.

MrB