What body mechanics did Jack the Ripper employ while deconstructing Mary Kelly?

[Beowulf]

I have puzzled over this for a long time, and just thought I'd throw it out there to see what others have come up with.

I can't see him just sitting in a chair next to the bed, he couldn't easily reach the face from a sitting position, or rip up the center of her from the distance of a chair next to the bed. If he were tall I think it would make it worse if he were working leaning over her. The distance would be greater from him to the body.

If he WERE leaning over her, wouldn't he be bloodied? How did he make it out of there that way without being noticed?

I know there were supposedly many butchers who left shops with blood, but this was early morning and he would've not been leaving the shop, but instead going to, and this street had no butcher shops anyway. You'd think with all the hubbub after the murder someone would remember the man with the bloody shirt.

It also seems he would have to put forceful effort into all this, stripping skin from the leg, cutting up the torso. If he knelt on the bed wouldn't there be prints left behind on the linen from smeared blood under the knees as they moved about. Right? But it doesn't look as if there are any smears like that on the linen.

One more thing, her body is very high up on the bed. Nearly hitting the headboard. One doesn't usually position themselves this high on a pillow, and I wondered if it were from his working on her and it moving her on the bed. Or did he kill her off the bed and then deposit her without the usual position one would take?

Also, I remember someone back then went to her place after a while, it was now rented to a couple who pointed out there was blood on the wall next to the bed still.

Why would that be? She was likely dead when he was doing all the cutting so there would be no heart to pump and splatter blood. Of course I suppose he was working furiously and thrashing the knife and blood about? Is there another thought on this?

One more thought. Her face, though very difficult to see what is going on there, has the look of being cut across from side to side in 4 separate slashes, like the lines of latitude on a globe. Lowest being the chin. In order to do that the head would have to be more or less face up, not on the side. Yet the face is sideways. When did this movement take place? Why did it take place? What led up to the change of position?

[Damaso Marte]

The possibility that the body, the bed, or anything else in the room may have been moved after the mutilation took place unfortunately makes it difficult to draw definite conclusions about what happened there.

[The Good Michael]

First off, he seems to have cut her throat while she was facing the wall. She would have lost enough blood quickly, and the wall and the mattress attest to this, to have produced little blood during his exploration. It is possible he intentionally bled her at that point. After that, moving the body as he needed to to get at what he wanted seems likely. I suggest he worked from the top down and pushed her up as he went down, though as Damaso says, she could have been moved any which way by anyone, including police and the photographer,

Mike

[GUT]

I just don't think we know, or indeed can know.

If however the breast etc really were "under the head" she seems to have been moved after those organs were removed and placed on the pillow.

I don't see that where he stood, sat etc would impact on the amount of blood he got on him.

[Wickerman]

There are a few issues here, for me, with this photograph.

The head has always looked too near the left shoulder. Almost as if it was placed there just for the photo, but not quite central on the pillow.

On the far right side of the bed it appears to me the right arm is extended out almost touching the partition, though Dr Bond's description suggests the arm was close to the body.

The placement of the head & apparent position of the right arm could be optical illusions.

Bond does suggest the body was moved from the side nearest the partition, and pulled?, towards the table perhaps for ease of reach by the killer.
Though with the top right corner of the bed being saturated, and partition splashed, with blood, the killer must also have been covered in blood.
I'm inclined to think this was not the position she was in when murdered.



I think Kelly was face down on the bed at the far right side, perhaps due to the killer being on the bed along side her.




He attacked her from behind, slicing her throat, and the trajectory of the blood would be away from the killer, consistent with the saturated bed and partition wall.



After slicing her throat he rolled her body to the left so she would end up 2/3rds of the way across the bed, as described by Dr Bond, and in the position she was photographed.

[Errata]

He attacked her from behind, slicing her throat, and the trajectory of the blood would be away from the killer, consistent with the saturated bed and partition wall.



After slicing her throat he rolled her body to the left so she would end up 2/3rds of the way across the bed, as described by Dr Bond, and in the position she was photographed.

Mary Kelly's right carotid was severed. Your depiction would mean the left carotid was severed.

I think she was flat on her back. I think he was on top of her for most of the mutilations, moving to the side for some parts and down between her legs for others. And I think he was likely covered in blood, but he wiped off his face and hands with some of the laundry that ended up in the fireplace. And I think he very well may have been naked or mostly disrobed. A sort of Lizzie Borden thing. His clothes would have remained unbloodied.

[Beowulf]

Mary Kelly's right carotid was severed. Your depiction would mean the left carotid was severed.

I think she was flat on her back. I think he was on top of her for most of the mutilations, moving to the side for some parts and down between her legs for others. And I think he was likely covered in blood, but he wiped off his face and hands with some of the laundry that ended up in the fireplace. And I think he very well may have been naked or mostly disrobed. A sort of Lizzie Borden thing. His clothes would have remained unbloodied.

I love those little drawings. They are quite good and really help me visualize what you are talking about. I suppose you drew them, Wickerman? Very well done!

But if, as Wickerman postulated, she was prone, well then (to Wickerman) are you thinking he was sleeping over? Because if he were there with only a sexual encounter then she would be in a position for anal sex, or what? Hard to believe these girls would be so trusting as to turn their backs on a man in the dark but I guess they did. It's possible. Then again, if he were sleeping over one would suppose this was more than a casual acquaintance.

As for the idea the right carotid was the one and she could not be attacked from the back he could've been left handed, of course that idea was tossed about many times, but it would be something to consider.

As for the mention of the wall being a partition, it made me suddenly realize that evidently her room was NOT the room next to the court with the window, I guess? Where was her room? I always thought it was the one with the window but there is no window in those photos and I know it was a small place.

[Wickerman]

Mary Kelly's right carotid was severed. Your depiction would mean the left carotid was severed.

You might like to read the full description of the neck wounds provided by Dr Bond.

"The tissues of the neck were severed all round down to the bone".

"The neck was cut through the skin & other tissue right down to the vertebrae the 5th & 6th being deeply notched."

Dr Phillips, at the Inquest, merely assumed the body had lay in the pose in which it was found, therefore the right carotid artery is the closest to the partition, but both carotid arteries had been cut (Ref: Bond), which Dr Phillips had not been given the opportunity to describe.

[Wickerman]

I love those little drawings. They are quite good and really help me visualize what you are talking about. I suppose you drew them, Wickerman? Very well done!

Thankyou Beowulf.
Some details are just hard to put into words alone

But if, as Wickerman postulated, she was prone, well then (to Wickerman) are you thinking he was sleeping over?

Not at all, I theorize that the intention was to use the bed for sex, that is true, but at some point, perhaps as she turned to face the bed?, the killer grasped her throat from behind (or used a cord?) and strangled her, then threw her face down onto the bed.
He climbed on her back and pull her head up to slice her throat.

Dr Bond did mention ecchymosis in the skin across her throat, while not exclusively being proof of strangulation it is certainly consistent with such.

As for the mention of the wall being a partition, it made me suddenly realize that evidently her room was NOT the room next to the court with the window, I guess? Where was her room? I always thought it was the one with the window but there is no window in those photos and I know it was a small place.

The windows are behind the photographer, the partition separated the back room of the house (looking on to the yard), from the front room which faced Dorset St.

P.S. The internal layout of 26 Dorset St has been the subject of much debate.

[Beowulf]

I think Kelly was face down on the bed at the far right side, perhaps due to the killer being on the bed along side her.




He attacked her from behind, slicing her throat, and the trajectory of the blood would be away from the killer, consistent with the saturated bed and partition wall.



After slicing her throat he rolled her body to the left so she would end up 2/3rds of the way across the bed, as described by Dr Bond, and in the position she was photographed.

Well, maybe this is all wrong, wild guesses here; but do you think that while he was slicing her throat holding her in this position he also slashed her face. It is a crosswise incision. Looks to be about 4 of them. Missed the throat in the dark? She was struggling? Or did it after her death?

[GUT]

G'Day Beowulf

Well, maybe this is all wrong, wild guesses here; but do you think that while he was slicing her throat holding her in this position he also slashed her face. It is a crosswise incision. Looks to be about 4 of them. Missed the throat in the dark? She was struggling? Or did it after her death?

Really doubt that the face was a miss at the neck, or four of them, or one would expect a bit more noise. No?

[Errata]

You might like to read the full description of the neck wounds provided by Dr Bond.

"The tissues of the neck were severed all round down to the bone".

"The neck was cut through the skin & other tissue right down to the vertebrae the 5th & 6th being deeply notched."

Dr Phillips, at the Inquest, merely assumed the body had lay in the pose in which it was found, therefore the right carotid artery is the closest to the partition, but both carotid arteries had been cut (Ref: Bond), which Dr Phillips had not been given the opportunity to describe.

I would imagine that when a coroner says that the cause of death was the severance of the right carotid artery, then he means the right carotid artery, no matter what other damage there may be. If both carotids were severed, there would be no differentiation. If both were severed, one would not be the cause of death and not the other one as well.

[curious4]

Defence wounds

Hello all,

There were defence wounds to her right (?) hand and cuts through the sheet. This suggests to me that she woke up and understood what was happening, possibly screamed for help (murder!) and then drew the sheet over her head in panic.

The idea that he put her on the floor to carry out the mutilations is interesting. There are reports of the police slipping in the blood (and such) on the floor, which might support this.

Best wishes,
C4

[GUT]

G'Day C4

But if her carotid was cut I expect that, even if done facng the wall, there would be blood everywhere.

[curious4]

Blood

Hello Gut,

There was the large pool of blood under the bed, by the wall, which apparently came from the throat-cutting, but the pieces of flesh which were cut off would have "bled" to a certain extent, just as (horrible analogy) you get blood from pieces of meat from the butcher or the supermarket.

Best wishes,
C4