How did Mary conduct her "transactions?"

[Michael W Richards]

The arrears were rent based only and related to the weekly rate that Mary was charged, it was a cumulative arrears...over a matter of weeks she had been short or unpaid.

And arrears in the case of Mary Kelly ARE relevant, as they match the habits of Mary at her location prior to Millers Court....she was evicted from that location for just that reason.

Was McCarthy more reasonable or nicer....I doubt it. When Mary was evicted before there wasnt a rash of Unfortunates killed in the East End, many landlords were allowing some arrears rather than ejecting them into the dangerous night.

Cheers

[richardnunweek]

Hi Michael.
I guess you can say that Kelly was living on borrowed time.all the time the killer was on the loose, she assumed she would be safe to live rent free, although I suspect on the undertaking, that she would contribute regularly to her back rent.
Kelly's remark to Mrs M, the previous day..''He is a concern isn't he'' I hear he is ripe in this area''..is fueling Mrs M with a compassionate attitude.
Regards Richard.

[GUT]

G'Day Bridewell

The creation of bogus rent arrears could have served to make McCarthy appear a nicer man than he really was; that in turn might have prevented anyone from shining too close a light on his relationship with the women who inhabited Millers Court. The whole thing is entirely speculative but rent arrears of such magnitude were surely most unusual.

I've had similar thoughts, an invention after the event, but if so wouldn't Joe have said something?

[markmorey5]

The last thing McCarthy would want is the reputation for being a soft touch for rent arrears. With that reputation every tennant in every property, and he rented more porperties than Millers Court, would have taken advantage of him. I suspect that if McCarthy wanted his money and Kelly couldn't pay, then she would have been in serious trouble as a warning to others.

The rent arrears are not a multiple of given weeks and we don't know why. Possibly Kelly paid portions of the arrears when she had spare change, possibly she worked for the arrears, or most likely the arrears included purchases from McCarthys chandlery, such as the tallow candle she purchased from him.

I would discount the hypothesis of the arrears being an invention after the event. That's not the reputation a slum landlord wants. The rent arrears were disclosed at the coronial inquest, for the obvious reason that the arrears were related to the discovery of the murder.

[GUT]

G'Day Mark

for the obvious reason that the arrears were related to the discovery of the murder.

Or an excuse if the visit was to collect his cut of the nights take.

[GUT]

The rent arrears are not a multiple of given weeks and we don't know why. Possibly Kelly paid portions of the arrears when she had spare change, possibly she worked for the arrears, or most likely the arrears included purchases from McCarthys chandlery, such as the tallow candle she purchased from him.

The explanation you give is fair enough as far as her paying "bits and pieces" but if it included purchases why not say "For rent and purchases"? Every reference is to rent arrears.

[jason_c]

The arrears were rent based only and related to the weekly rate that Mary was charged, it was a cumulative arrears...over a matter of weeks she had been short or unpaid.

And arrears in the case of Mary Kelly ARE relevant, as they match the habits of Mary at her location prior to Millers Court....she was evicted from that location for just that reason.

Was McCarthy more reasonable or nicer....I doubt it. When Mary was evicted before there wasnt a rash of Unfortunates killed in the East End, many landlords were allowing some arrears rather than ejecting them into the dangerous night.

Cheers

Im not sure you can say this for certain. McCarthy doesnt go into much detail on the matter(at least he doesn't in the inquest). He just calls them arrears. At first glance I would say they are more likely to be rent arrears, but they need not be only rent arrears. It could just as easily be part rent arrears part money owed to the shop. McCarthy was making money out of the residents in a couple of different ways. I see no need for him to give a detailed breakdown of the money Kelly owed.

[GUT]

G'Day Jason

But why then say rent arrears, not "money owed"?

[jason_c]

G'Day Jason

But why then say rent arrears, not "money owed"?

People can often be a bit sloppy with their language. Though I note McCarthy did in fact call them "arrears" not "rent arrears". I still think it significant that no-one at the time thought to press McCarthy on the matter. If those at the time didnt think these arrears were so out of the ordinary then we probably shouldn't either. Or at least we shouldn't assume some sort of ulterior motive behind McCarthy's attitude towards Kelly's financial arrears.

[GUT]

G'Day Jason

But the inquiries were into a murder not rent arrears or prostitution so why would they press him on the question. It still looks like a lot, it amounts to about 6 or 7 weeks of rent. No one, as far as we know asked Joe about them either.

The other thing is we don't have the inquest, only a newspaper report, we can't rule out that he was asked more and the paper just didn't bother to print it, how boring "on x day she paid 2p on y day 1p and on and on".

It is just another thing in this case that puzzles me.

[GUT]

I also find it interesting that the arrears go back to pre Joe leaving after all he'd only been gone for 9 or 10 days.

[Wickerman]

The other thing is we don't have the inquest, only a newspaper report, we can't rule out that he was asked more and the paper just didn't bother to print it, how boring "on x day she paid 2p on y day 1p and on and on".

I guess you are aware that only two official inquest records have survived, that of Catherine Eddowes & that of Mary Kelly.

You are correct that the papers selected what parts of inquest testimony to print and what to leave out.
I Collated a broad selection of newspaper reports of Inquest testimony for the Kelly Inquest, beginning with the official record, (GLRO), and some seventeen press accounts.

Here is the entire section concerning McCarthy's testimony of Kelly's rent.
(Official record being highlighted in red)

(GLRO) I was paid 4/6 a week for the room, but rent was 29/- in arrear – the rent was paid to me weekly. The room was let weekly.

(DT) (RN) [Coroner] What rent was paid for this room ? - It was supposed to be 4s 6d a week. Deceased was in arrears 29s. I was to be paid the rent weekly. Arrears are got as best you can.

(T) (LWN) Deceased was supposed to pay 4s. 6d. per week for the room, but she was £1 9s. in arrear.

(IT) I do not known that Barnett and deceased had any serious quarrel. I let the room at 4s 6d a week. Deceased was 29s in arrear.

(MA) (STD) She paid 4s. 6d. a-week for the room. The deceased was 29s. in arrear of rent. The rent was paid weekly.

(DN) The rent was 4s. 6d. a week-at least, that was supposed to be the rent. The deceased was 29s. in arrear. The room was let weekly, but when they get in arrear you have to get your money the best way you can.

(EN) The rent of the room was 4s 6d per week, but deceased was 29s in arrears. I was supposed to get the rent weekly.

(SJG) The rent was 4s 6d a week, and the deceased was 29s in arrears.

(E) What rent were you paid for the room? - 4s. 6d. a week. She was 29s in arrear.

(S) The rent of the room was 4s. 6d. weekly. Deceased was about 29s. in arrears.

(ELA) ...and the rent was 4s. 6d. per week. The deceased was 29s. in arrears of rent.

(SC) She paid 4s 6d a week for the room. The deceased was 29s in arrear of rent. The rent was paid weekly.

As you can see the Daily Telegraph (DT) and Reynolds News (RN), recorded more than the official (GLRO) record, but many like St. James Gazette (SJG), Echo (E), and Star (S), etc. reported less.
Which also makes us aware that even the official record is not as complete as we might expect it to be.

[GUT]

G'Day Jon

Thanks for that, I've never seen the official inquest, I thought it was missing, can you point me to where I'd find it.

As for the press reporting more and/or less of what happens in Court I've seen it first hand many times.

As for records of inquests and hearings not recording everything back in the days when "dep clerks" took it all down, either in longhand, shorthand or typing this was common. It was only with the advent of recording hearings that we finally got close to 95% accuracy.

The people preparing these things are only human, and only record what they hear, even if they miss-hear.

[Wickerman]

Just by way of emphasis, the last statement of Joe Barnett in the official record (GLRO) is limited to this:

(GLRO) She had on several occasions asked me to read about the murders. She seemed afraid of some one. She did not express fear of any particular individual except when she rowed with me but we away came to terms quickly.


Yet The Standard, a highly influential newspaper had more to say:

(STD) Did she have any fear about anyone? - No, not particular; but she used to ask me to read about the murders and I used to bring them all home and read them. If I did not bring one she would get it herself, and ask me whether the murderer was caught. I used to tell her everything of what was in the paper. Did she go in fear of any particular individual? - No, sir. Only with me now and again, and that was always shortly over; one moment rowing, and for days and weeks always friendly. Often I bought her things coming home, and whatever it was she always liked it. She was always glad of my fetching her such articles - such as meat and other things, as my hard earnings would allow.

[GUT]

Yet again Jon why we need to peruse as many sources as possible to get the most complete picture possible.