13 Miller's Court AFTER 1888.

[Celesta]

If only people had been more ghoulish we may have had greater access to original Ripper items than we do today.

Yeah, except that a lot of people would doubt that it came from there, so we'd be back to square one probably and with more to argue over.

[jason_c]

Does anyone wish to bid for a pair of Mary Kelly's knickers im selling on ebay?

[Christine]

Thanks Chris.

There's no indication that anyone ever opened that door, is there? I assumed it was a just another piece of salvaged wood that somebody used to improvise a wall.

In any case, it would have been easier to take it down than to put it up, and if it were a door, easier still to unlock it and call it a two-room flat.

[Sam Flynn]

Obviously, Chris, you're right. No way could six people be in a room that small.

Only six, Phil? A mere bagatelle!

From the East London Advertiser, Sept 15th 1888 (cited in "Urban Culture", ed. Chris Jenks, 2002 - also Google Books!), we find a family of nine living in such circumstances:

"At an inquest held by Dr Macdonald, in Spitalfields, upon the death of a baby four months old, evidence was given that the parents and their seven children lived all together in one room about 12 feet square, for which they paid 4s 6d a week."

...spookily familiar

[George Hutchinson]

Ah, Gareth, but seven small children and two adults of one family - that is worthy of journalistic note, even amongst the LVP - isn't the same as three sets of different adults that doesn't get a mention, particularly given the newsworthiness of the room in question. I take your point, though. It seems the world of Henry Mayhew didn't change just because Mayhew was dead.

Chris - I don't know if it's in a book, but I myself surmised that #13 may well have been both a kitchen and pantry in the original house. The fact there are two very different windows at different heights in the same small wall suggest that this was not a single room.

PHILIP

[Stephen Thomas]

Hi Philip

This is pure guesswork but I would imagine that as three heads of households are mentioned, the other people would have been living in Rooms#19 and #20 Millers Court which were on the floor above #13, inside 26 Dorset Street and maybe they were assembled in or outside #13 to give their details. Room#19 was, of course, the room directly above Kelly's room and #20 was the room at the front over the shed. Both were accessed via the door next to Kelly's in the passageway. Rob's transcription of the Kate Marshall murder trial in 1898 shows 3 adults and a child in #19 and a man and 2 young ladies in #20......

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=547

Mary Kelly's room would have indeed been the kitchen or scullery of #26 originally. Practically all 18th and 19th Centuary terraced 'middle class' houses were built to a certain scheme. The ground floor front room would have been what is still quaintly called the 'reception' room with the 'sitting' room directly above. Bedrooms on the next floor and the servants in the attic. I would imagine that there was originally a corridor with a window at the end to provide light which would be the right hand window on the photo while the door would provide access to the garden.

[George Hutchinson]

Thanks, Stephen. In regards to the layout of the back, that's just like where I used to live. The house was only 100 years old, but my annexe had once been the kitchen and pantry and a corridor leading to it. Yes, a very unusual collection of small and oddly-shaped rooms.

PHILIP

[Chris Scott]

Out of interest does any one know at what date the houses in Dorset Street (particularly 26 and 27) were built?

[George Hutchinson]

I don't know the exact date, but most of the buildings in Dorset Street were from about 1700.

PHILIP

[Antonio Sironi]

Hi All!
This not directly related to what happended to Mary's room after the murder, but can someone of you confirm me that McCarthy tried to sell for something like 20£ Marys' bed?

Thank you very much,
All the best,

Antonio Sironi

[Dan Norder]

Hi Antonio,

Someone had offered to buy Mary's bed, but McCarthy refused.

[sdreid]

I wonder what artifacts of the case still exist but the connection has been forgotten.

[Suzi]

Spookily spooky that in the 1891 census in the somewhat 'cosy' room 13 where to be found a Thomas and Ann Kelly

[Celesta]

Ah, Gareth, but seven small children and two adults of one family - that is worthy of journalistic note, even amongst the LVP - isn't the same as three sets of different adults that doesn't get a mention, particularly given the newsworthiness of the room in question. I take your point, though. It seems the world of Henry Mayhew didn't change just because Mayhew was dead.

Chris - I don't know if it's in a book, but I myself surmised that #13 may well have been both a kitchen and pantry in the original house. The fact there are two very different windows at different heights in the same small wall suggest that this was not a single room.

PHILIP

I saw it somewhere, too, and I think it could have been in Ms Pat's book. Note I said, "think."

[Chava]

I've asked this before, but does anyone know when Millers Court was built? I'm assuming on the grounds of a stables or whatever for the original adjacent houses.

Was Dorset St as early as 1700? I thought it was slightly later than that...