Was Mrs Maxwell lying

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Mrs Maxwell's statement has always bothered me, even more so recently when a letter to a police force was allegedly penned from the very address she resided , exactly one week prior to Kelly's death.
We have a woman claiming to have seen someone some 4 hours after medical reports of T.O.D, who remained adamant even at the inquest when warned to think carefully.
She swore under oath that her sighting was authentic.
We therefore have a witness who went against all medical reports, and maintained the impossible.
Yes she may have confused the time, although she gave her statement on the 9th November, just hours after the body was discovered, not to mention verification by shopkeepers who she visited.
Yes she may have confused the identity, even though she claimed to have known Barnett, and had plenty of time at the inquest to alter her statement when she would have discovered any mistake.also she had the entire weekend before the inquest to realize any error.
Some of us[ me included[ have suggested that Maxwell did actual see Kelly alive at 830am but the general feeling on Casebook is.. this was not the case.
So If the majority are right, is their another reason for the highly surprising admission by this witness?
Was she Lying?
Taking a speculative view, one would suggest that she would have had one main reasons for doing this.
To lead the police to the view, that the murder happened at a later date in order to possibly protect someone.? someone who had no alibi for the hours of darkness.
The police appeared at least initially to believe that the murder took place in daylight, and they also believed that the killer had someone who assisted them.
The letter sent to the Norfolk police, which comes across as a hoax, many of us dismiss, as it is out of area, but the fact remains that it states it was from 14, Dorset Street, the very house that the witness Maxwell lived in, which leaves one to conclude that it is indeed a ''small world''.
Coincidences do occur, but one week prior to a Ripper murder, sent from a residence right opposite the murder scene , shows incredible foresight ..don't you think?
Regards Richard.

[RivkahChaya]

I think that's a viable theory, but you do have to wonder whom she was protecting.

Most people don't have an alibi for 3am-- or rather, their alibi was "I was asleep in bed." If they have a witness, it will be a spouse, who might be presumed willing to lie, or someone who works in a doss house who sees a lot of different faces every night, and probably does not give receipts.

That leads me to think that if Mrs. Maxwell was protecting someone, it was someone who especially needed protection-- in other words, someone already under suspicion. Did the police have any favorite suspects at the time? Did they bring anyone in for questioning right after finding MJK? Was there anyone in special need of an alibi, because another witness had placed that person at the scene right at the critical time?

More importantly, if such a person existed was it someone Mrs. Maxwell would want to protect?

[Cogidubnus]

Caution folks

there are two threads here with the same title...both started by Richard with identical opening posts...I've suggested to Richard he asks admin if they can be combined...

All the best

Dave

[Robert]

Was Mrs Maxwell lying? No.

[Robert]

I see that the other thread where I said Yes has not appeared on the board.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I noticed after I typed the thread, after submitting ,there was two identical posts, and I never double posted.
Regards Richard.

[Robert]

Richard, you've started something here. I've heard of the Cross thread, but this is the criss-cross thread. I don't know which thread I'll end up on when I click. It's like a quantum parallel worlds universe.

[Michael W Richards]

Is this the Matrix again? Are we in the Matrix? Duh-Duh-Duh Duhhhhh

The short answer is like Robert said, no, she probably didnt lie or make it all up. But she likely saw someone else she confused for Mary Jane, or she saw her on another morning. I believe she embellished with the personalized nature of their conversation, for someone she had likely said "Good day" on the street to perhaps 4 times over some months. Mary wouldnt be calling her "Corrie"

There are many possibilities,.... for one,..... do we know how good Mrs Maxwells eyesight was? Might she have seen someone who simply appeared to be the woman she knew from the odd "good day"? Might she have portrayed herself as sympathetic to a neighborhood street walker, even if she may have had a negative view of such women in her life, so as not to appear judgmental of the poor victim in this case? I dont know...do you? Does anyone know the answer to these and other questions?

We dont know what happened there, we only know that her statement is contradictory to the medical opinion on TOD, and that she was warned about that at the Inquest, on the stand... of that as well as with other evidence provided.

Common sense seems to me to suggest that if someone other than Mary Jane was actually in that bed when they forced the door open, then the woman known as Mary Jane would likely have known that, perhaps been a party to it, and not be showing her face in the neighborhood the morning of the murder.

I can believe it was someone other than the woman calling herself Mary Jane Kelly in that bed that afternoon....I mean all you have to do is look at those photos,... even her lover could only say he recognized 2 features. But I cant believe it would be done without her knowledge. The most probable scenario that would involve a substitution like that, to my mind, is one that Mary might orchestrate, or someone might orchestrate, to clandestinely remove her from public view.

Seems too far fetched at this stage.

Unless...just a guess here....the reason no-one can find her by the history Barnett said she provided, as well as her friends, ...is because her name and backstory was an alias being used due to her involvement in some secretive operations. Either for or against the English Government. My guess would be that if so, it would have something to do with France.

Just postulatin.

Cheers

[richardnunweek]

Hi Michael,
You suggest that Mrs Maxwell was overdoing her statement by introducing more familiarity then was likely.
But surely if she had intentions to mislead, then she would have gone overboard in showing just that?.
I would never suggest, that the body found was anything else but the woman Mary Jane, that is not more belief.
The whole point of this thread, is to suggest that Maxwell may have introduced the sighting ,in a effort to mislead the police over time of death.
This scenario becomes even more plausible , because of that strange letter to the police one week prior. with Maxwell's address quoted on the envelope .
We can call it a coincidence, irrelevant, or any other opt out, but I have always had a inkling that Dorset Street was important in relation to the killer..so why not start the investigation at the very address that letter was allegedly sent from?
Regards Richard.

[Nemo]

Just thought I'd mention that by the time the letter was sent, Annie Chapman had been reported to have been living in Dorset St and also Catherine Eddowes was said to have slept in a shed at Dorset St

[Lechmere]

Wasn't Druitt from... Dorset?

[richardnunweek]

Hi Nemo,
Exactly Dorset street had housed Chapman, and reports of Eddowes, dossing in the shed were disclosed, and it could be that the author of such a letter had at one time stayed in the street, or even maybe resided there.
But we are talking of one week prior to Mary's death, and a specific number which was exactly opposite the next Ripper murder site, that in itself is rather psychic, and was also the residence of the the Maxwell's , whose confusing account still has all discussing 125 years later.
Regards Richard.

[Wickerman]

The whole point of this thread, is to suggest that Maxwell may have introduced the sighting ,in a effort to mislead the police over time of death.

Hi Richard.
Then what was the motive of Maurice Lewis?

[richardnunweek]

Hi Jon.
Maurice Lewis was never interviewed by the police[as recorded] and therefore never appeared at the inquest.
He is a different kettle of fish to Maxwell, she apparently identified clothing found in the room as what Kelly was wearing, and she allegedly held a conversation with her, and she swore on oath that her sighting was true.
Why just accept that she was mistaken, or wrong individual, when there is a third possibility ?
That is why I started this thread.
I appreciate there was Maurice Lewis's claim.also allegedly a unknown woman who saw her alive in Dorset street in daylight.
But the former's actual press account does not add up, and the latter could not be traced, so It's highly likely that they were both time wasters.
What I tend to do in my posts/threads , is consider other scenarios when they present themselves , because this case is hardly as simple as ABC.
Regards Richard.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Probably.

The idea that Maxwell was resolute and therefore her statement held weight, is weak. Anyone seeking attention will be stubborn.

Jack kileld at night. Chances are Kelly was killed at night.