MJK's photo censored/vandalised?

[Losmandris]

Over on another thread MarkJD has kind of blown my mind postulating that the face in the famous MJK photo was intentionally obscured/vandalised/censored to possibly protect public decency etc. This to me at least makes a lot of sense. I have never been able to pick out any kind of detail. Which is strange as some accounts said her eyes were open and staring. Could this be an explanation? Thoughts?


Here is Mark's excellent post for context:


Originally posted by Mark J D

The facial area on the photographic plate has been censored by way of vandalism with some kind of stylus. Essentially, the emulsion bearing that part of the image has been broken up and moved around by a great deal of scraping motion. What we see is not a hacked-about face. What we see is a hacked-about image that no longer allows us to see the hacked-about face.

Yes, at some point -- perhaps when the plate was first developed and the emulsion was still wet -- someone with custody of the image decided that Mary Jane's ravaged face was something that the world would not be permitted to see, and the image was vandalised to prevent it being seen. It's not impossible that this was done preparatory to the image being released for first publication and in line with applicable obscenity laws; but if the very earliest published reproductions can be examined, there may be a small chance of the un-vandalised image having been used somewhere.

Note of caution. Close up of the MJK photo attached.

[Yabs]

Looks to me like those fine lines on the face area aren’t scratches they’re just lines added by whatever modern app/algorithm the picture was enhanced by.
I did this with an old very blurry photo of a relative and the same thing happened.

You can even see similar lines on the pillow in the MJK photo.
Algorithms have a habit of adding detail that isn’t there but thinks should be.

[RManny]

There is stuff that is just out of place on her face. Her eyes are out of position, her teeth (or what appears to be her teeth) are tilted out of position. It's just awfully odd. I am not an expert on photographic software or old photos, but this photo (primarily her face) seems royally fouled up by something.

[DJA]

Perhaps the killer wanted to obscure her identity.

Mary Ann Kelly's corpse was destined to be sent to her old church's mortuary where Sutton was still on the Vestry Board.

Fair chance he assisted in stitching her up.

Quite possibly the person who gave a pressman her time of death.

[Losmandris]

There is stuff that is just out of place on her face. Her eyes are out of position, her teeth (or what appears to be her teeth) are tilted out of position. It's just awfully odd. I am not an expert on photographic software or old photos, but this photo (primarily her face) seems royally fouled up by something.

I agree. The hair seems unaffected as does a small section of forehead at the bottom right. The rest is completely obscure(d). Absolutely nothing can be made out. The cracked egg shell appearance is very strange????

I have no doubt that the murder carried out extensive injuries to MJK's face but I would have thought you would have been able to at least make out some details like where her mouth is, eyes and nose are. But I cannot make out a thing. The deliberate obscuring makes a lot of sense to me now when I look at the picture.

[Losmandris]

Perhaps the killer wanted to obscure her identity.

Mary Ann Kelly's corpse was destined to be sent to her old church's mortuary where Sutton was still on the Vestry Board.

Fair chance he assisted in stitching her up.

Quite possibly the person who gave a pressman her time of death.

He quite possibly did. Though from the looks of the picture, this is the result of some deliberate action with a stylus or finger rather than a knife. Didn't Walter Dew talk about her staring eyes? They are no where to be seen in the picture.

[DJA]

Her mouth/lips with two wooden false teeth are clearly visible.

One eye is above and to the the right.That is her left eye.

The face has been blanched with very hot water and rotated.

Her right eye and where her nose was are discernible.

[Losmandris]

Her mouth/lips with two wooden false teeth are clearly visible.

One eye is above and to the the right.That is her left eye.

The face has been blanched with very hot water and rotated.

Her right eye and where her nose was are discernible.

You have me there, I am afraid. I cannot make out a thing. To me the picture has either been doctored or the murderer used a sledge hammer to literally turn her face into pulp.

Do you believe her eyes are open, as eye witnesses seem to have reported?

[Mark J D]

Her mouth/lips with two wooden false teeth are clearly visible. One eye is above and to the the right. That is her left eye. The face has been blanched with very hot water and rotated. Her right eye and where her nose was are discernible.

Treating this image with AI software is always going to cause problems: the algorithm will be looking for clues that allow it to impose higher-resolution 'corrections' in line with a programmed expectation of likely facial features that simply weren't intact on this victim's face. Can anyone provide a good-quality scan of a printed reproduction from the pre-digital era? I think the first time I ever saw this photo it was in the Stephen Knight paperback, which I read in the mid-80s. The face was radically incomprehensible to me then also; but at least there would have been no cleverclogs IT interference. Can someone upload a guaranteed pre-digital version for comparison? It may of course be that the original image was painted over to some extent as well as the emulsion being attacked physically; but at least we'll know that any impossible teeth and misplaced eyes aren't artefacts of digital processing.

M.

[DJA]

Jack the Ripper Photo Archive - Mary Jane Kelly/Mary Jane Kelly, crime scene photo number 1

[Mark J D]

Her mouth/lips with two wooden false teeth are clearly visible. One eye is above and to the the right.That is her left eye. The face has been blanched with very hot water and rotated. Her right eye and where her nose was are discernible.

Sorry; but I think I'm going to have to ask if you wouldn't mind drawing a few arrows on the photo to indicate what you are seeing...

M.

[Mark J D]

Jack the Ripper Photo Archive - Mary Jane Kelly/Mary Jane Kelly, crime scene photo number 1

Inadequate image quality, sad to say...

Anyone got a better one?

Distasteful though it is to say it about such a horrible sight, 'we need to see more'...

M.

[Losmandris]

Sorry; but I think I'm going to have to ask if you wouldn't mind drawing a few arrows on the photo to indicate what you are seeing...

M.

That would certainly help me!

[Abby Normal]

Over on another thread MarkJD has kind of blown my mind postulating that the face in the famous MJK photo was intentionally obscured/vandalised/censored to possibly protect public decency etc. This to me at least makes a lot of sense. I have never been able to pick out any kind of detail. Which is strange as some accounts said her eyes were open and staring. Could this be an explanation? Thoughts?


Here is Mark's excellent post for context:


Originally posted by Mark J D

The facial area on the photographic plate has been censored by way of vandalism with some kind of stylus. Essentially, the emulsion bearing that part of the image has been broken up and moved around by a great deal of scraping motion. What we see is not a hacked-about face. What we see is a hacked-about image that no longer allows us to see the hacked-about face.

Yes, at some point -- perhaps when the plate was first developed and the emulsion was still wet -- someone with custody of the image decided that Mary Jane's ravaged face was something that the world would not be permitted to see, and the image was vandalised to prevent it being seen. It's not impossible that this was done preparatory to the image being released for first publication and in line with applicable obscenity laws; but if the very earliest published reproductions can be examined, there may be a small chance of the un-vandalised image having been used somewhere.

Note of caution. Close up of the MJK photo attached.

im wondering if the AI may have enhanced the cracks in the photo, like the ones you can see on the pillow next to her head, but only the ones on and around her face thinking they were hair and enhancing them?

[Losmandris]

im wondering if the AI may have enhanced the cracks in the photo, like the ones you can see on the pillow next to her head, but only the ones on and around her face thinking they were hair and enhancing them?

Possibly. Though its the hair that makes me now think that the picture was originally altered somehow. It is really clear just above the forehead, especially in the bottom right hand corner. The face looks almost like it has been covered with the Victorian equivalent of tip-ex/correction fluid!