The Time spent Killing Kelly

[Marie Jeanette Davies]

No proof it was Kelly. The witness statement claimed it was faint. Most likely well away from the scene.

I think I had a man about to strangle me to death in my bed. I would more likely let out a blood-curdling scream than releasing an almost polite "Oh murder" quietly.

For what it's worth, I think it was Mary, but I'm not sure it signaled the beginning of the attack. Maybe she let it out when her killer tapped at her window or knocked on her door, basically awakening her.

[Varqm]

No proof it was Kelly. The witness statement claimed it was faint. Most likely well away from the scene.

I think I had a man about to strangle me to death in my bed. I would more likely let out a blood-curdling scream than releasing an almost polite "Oh murder" quietly.

She was drunk. The middle time between the two opposing time of deaths from the doctors is around 4 am .The police believed so .The coroner I think, if I remember right cautioned Maxwell about the time of her sighting. It is very hard to believe it was a nightmare.

[Abby Normal]

For what it's worth, I think it was Mary, but I'm not sure it signaled the beginning of the attack. Maybe she let it out when her killer tapped at her window or knocked on her door, basically awakening her.

agree. two witnesses heard it with one saying it was from her room. however, I think if the cries were hers, it signalled the start of the attack. I beleive she was already passed out/ asleep, and tried to scream out right as or just after he already cut her throat. theres evidence (with the sheet being cut through) that he may have placed the sheet over her head/ face before cutting her throat, possibly helping to stifle the screams.

and to the original point of the thread-I dont neccesarily think it would have been too loud and or he would have been covered in blood. as i said she was probably asleep when she was attacked, and already dead when he started the mutilations. if he did put the sheet over her, and cutting her throat through the sheet, it would blocked the arterial spray from getting all over her. and of course he could have cleaned up a bit before he left.

re the noise-we do have the the two women hearing the faint cries and also one heard someone leaving around 5:30 so it wasnt totally silent, just not loud or prolonged enough noise to arouse serious concern.

[Aethelwulf]

agree. two witnesses heard it with one saying it was from her room. however, I think if the cries were hers, it signalled the start of the attack. I beleive she was already passed out/ asleep, and tried to scream out right as or just after he already cut her throat. theres evidence (with the sheet being cut through) that he may have placed the sheet over her head/ face before cutting her throat, possibly helping to stifle the screams.

and to the original point of the thread-I dont neccesarily think it would have been too loud and or he would have been covered in blood. as i said she was probably asleep when she was attacked, and already dead when he started the mutilations. if he did put the sheet over her, and cutting her throat through the sheet, it would blocked the arterial spray from getting all over her. and of course he could have cleaned up a bit before he left.

re the noise-we do have the the two women hearing the faint cries and also one heard someone leaving around 5:30 so it wasnt totally silent, just not loud or prolonged enough noise to arouse serious concern.

I would agree. There was a murder committed, quite likely around that time, and a cry of murder around the same time. I'm sure cries of murder were very common, especially around pub closing time, but less common around 4 am. I don't see any reason to look beyond the simplest explanation to be honest.

I also think that after weeks of frustration due to the high police presence, the ripper would have seen Kelly as a glorious success, and something he would want to repeat as soon as possible. I reckon he tried to pull the same trick on Farmer and for whatever reason, perhaps just a split second fumble, something to alert her, she got out more than a cry of murder. Where he was prepared to bet that no one would follow up at 4 am, at 9.30 it was a different story. Just my opinion, certainly one that won't find much favour.

[jason_c]

No proof it was Kelly. The witness statement claimed it was faint. Most likely well away from the scene.

I think I had a man about to strangle me to death in my bed. I would more likely let out a blood-curdling scream than releasing an almost polite "Oh murder" quietly.

A couple of possibilities spring to mind if the cry of 'oh murder' was from Kelly. The cry of oh murder may have resulted from locals well trained in knowing exactly what to shout when under attack. A simple scream wouldn't get anyone out of bed. Im not entirely sure I agree with this myself but it is a possibility.

What I think more likely is that the reported 'oh murder' was actually an expletive. The witnesses and press decide to clean up the final words of a tragic female victim. 'Oh murder' to me rings of what Victorian readers would expect a female victim to cry.

[Abby Normal]

A couple of possibilities spring to mind if the cry of 'oh murder' was from Kelly. The cry of oh murder may have resulted from locals well trained in knowing exactly what to shout when under attack. A simple scream wouldn't get anyone out of bed. Im not entirely sure I agree with this myself but it is a possibility.

What I think more likely is that the reported 'oh murder' was actually an expletive. The witnesses and press decide to clean up the final words of a tragic female victim. 'Oh murder' to me rings of what Victorian readers would expect a female victim to cry.

hi jason
perhaps. but two witnesses heard the cry murder. but i do think its just a translation/ transcription type thing. witness probably heard her cry out something before the word murder, and it got transcribed as oh, which sounds weird, dramatic to us.

[Kattrup]

What I think more likely is that the reported 'oh murder' was actually an expletive. The witnesses and press decide to clean up the final words of a tragic female victim. 'Oh murder' to me rings of what Victorian readers would expect a female victim to cry.

I used to think, too, that it was shorthand for "something dramatic", but looking into it, I found that people did actually cry out the word "murder". It is not too difficult to find other examples of this.

If you touch me I will scream murder "—I was then at the bottom of the stairs, listening—it seemed to me that they were in a room, but which room they were in I could not say—I could hear distinctly—there is a bend in the staircase—I heard mother scream "Murder! "and "Police!

On September 1st I heard the prisoner's mother scream, "Murder, murder; you have killed me!"

I heard my mother-in-law scream "Murder! they have killed him!" [...] I screamed "Murder!"—they all ran away.

[Michael W Richards]

For what it's worth, I think it was Mary, but I'm not sure it signaled the beginning of the attack. Maybe she let it out when her killer tapped at her window or knocked on her door, basically awakening her.

Ive posted that opinion myself many times in the past here Marie...but, you can lead a horse to water,....

This position is substantiated by a few things.....diddles waking at that same time, Sarah hearing this "as if at her door", and Elizabeth hearing it "as if from the court", the fact that no-one claimed to be the owner of that voice...(clearly Mary was the only person who could not have do so), the fact that no noise is heard by either aforementioned women after they heard that call out, and the circumstantial evidence about the room being dark and quiet at 1:30..inferring that if anyone did knock at the door at nearly 4am it would be waking a woman who likely passed out from heavy drinking, after her company was shown the door.

Personally I think that was the last thing anyone heard from Mary Kelly, it was from her door opened a crack and seeing someone there who wanted in, and that she immediately went back to bed , slid over to the side closest to the partition wall, curled her legs up, and went back to sleep. Which means her killer was known to her, was let in by her, and that she turned her back to him to return to slumber leaving room for him to "spoon" in with her, not for sex. Makes perfect sense...which would make it unpalatable for many here.

I think it was likely the Joe she was seeing in addition to Barnett, the one that we havent identified.