Mary Kelly's return to Pennington Street

[jerryd]

Hull Daily Mail
Nov 12, 1888


Anyone care to comment on why Mary Kelly returned to take a bed at Mrs. McCarthy's in Pennington Street at 2 a.m. with a strange man? Was this while she was with Barnett or after he left? Why would she need a private room in her old stomping grounds when she had one in Miller's Court?

[erobitha]

The vague "some short time ago" does not help.

You could reasonably assume "the when" was whilst she was with Barnett - it was around a week they were separated before her murder. If it was as recent as a week before her murder she did this I'm sure the timeline given would be more definitive. "I last saw her just a few days before she died".

As to "the why", we will never know. If she was soliciting behind Barnett's back then why not conduct business on the street as most prostitutes did then - why did she need a room for a night? The strange man may have paid for the privilege of a private room and more of her time possibly.

"The Who" again could be anyone. If it was not a client it could have been someone important to her who she wanted to keep away from Barnett. A secret boyfriend? Someone from her past? who knows.

Another mystery to add to MJK.

[DJA]

Hull Daily Mail
Nov 12, 1888


Anyone care to comment on why Mary Kelly returned to take a bed at Mrs. McCarthy's in Pennington Street at 2 a.m. with a strange man? Was this while she was with Barnett or after he left? Why would she need a private room in her old stomping grounds when she had one in Miller's Court?

Surmise that Barnett may have been the strange man.

[Wickerman]

Hull Daily Mail
Nov 12, 1888


Anyone care to comment on why Mary Kelly returned to take a bed at Mrs. McCarthy's in Pennington Street at 2 a.m. with a strange man? Was this while she was with Barnett or after he left? Why would she need a private room in her old stomping grounds when she had one in Miller's Court?

Don't most people think this was Joe Flemming, a plasterer or something of that nature?
Kelly was reputed to have lived with him after Pennington st., but before she met Barnett.
If McCarthy didn't know Flemming, then was he the strange man?
Wasn't it Julia V. who said Kelly had another man she liked called Joe?

[MrBarnett]

Don't most people think this was Joe Flemming, a plasterer or something of that nature?
Kelly was reputed to have lived with him after Pennington st., but before she met Barnett.
If McCarthy didn't know Flemming, then was he the strange man?
Wasn't it Julia V. who said Kelly had another man she liked called Joe?

But wasn’t Fleming said to have visited Kelly in Pennington Street?

Charging sailors a couple of bob for a night of pleasure in a Ratcliff Highway brothel seems par for the course, but I can’t see either of the Joes having that kind of money to burn.

Read in combination, Mrs McCarthy’s and Mrs ‘Phoenix’s’ statements portray Kelly as a troublesome drunk who was in the habit of entertaining men in a private room. Why would they have done that? Why not keep a low profile about their families’ brothel-keeping activities?

[MrBarnett]

As for the other ‘Joe’, the one who allegedly mistreated Kelly, does his full name have to have been Joseph? Couldn’t it have been Johannes?

[Al Bundy's Eyes]

Surmise that Barnett may have been the strange man.

I had the same thought.

Not sure why they'd be renting the room that night though?

[DJA]

2 am 30th September?

[MrBarnett]

I had the same thought.

Not sure why they'd be renting the room that night though?

Anything’s possible, but that seems pretty unlikely to me. 2s for a bed is three times what it would have cost for a double in a Spitalfields doss house. And unless it was at the very beginning of Kelly and Barnett’s relationship wouldn’t he have been introduced to Mrs McCarthy? And might he not have mentioned Mrs McCarthy in his statements/evidence?

[MrBarnett]

2 am 30th September?

Another cryptic aside?

[DJA]

After the double event.
Before Eddowes' apron was found.
26 Dorset Street was ~ 10 minutes walk from Mitre Square.

[jerryd]

After the double event.
Before Eddowes' apron was found.
26 Dorset Street was ~ 10 minutes walk from Mitre Square.

Dave.

This sleepover was not at 26 Dorset Street, though. This was down at Ratcliff Hwy/Pennington Street.

[DJA]

Jerry.

Stride had been dead for over an hour.

[jerryd]

Jerry.

Stride had been dead for over an hour.

If you don't mind, tell me the scenario you're thinking.

Are you implying Mary Kelly and Joseph Barnett had something to do with the double event?

[DJA]

If you don't mind, tell me the scenario you're thinking.

Are you implying Mary Kelly and Joseph Barnett had something to do with the double event?

Never had a doubt that the five were blackmailing Sutton due to his homosexuality.
Whole thing goes back to Mary Ann Kelly 20 years earlier when she was eight years old and he was her Vestry Board Medical Officer.

Reckon Stride and Eddowes were supposed to meet Sutton in the alley in Berner Street with BS Man as muscle.

This scenario is just surmise .....
Eddowes does not turn up.
Stride is murdered.
Kelly and Barnett panic and head further down the Road to a safer address.(Barnett may have been BS Man).
Sutton goes to 13 Millers Court and finds no one home.
Remember Major Henry Smith's tale of JtR washing his hands at a trough in Dorset Street.
The half apron and GSG were left after 2.20 am.