Mary Williams?

[Debra A]

I'm not sure I personally recall this name proposed for MJK before?
This is from an article that appeared in the Nottingham Evening Post on 10th May 1927, titled 'Mortuary Mysteries' if it hasn't been seen I can post the whole article as it mentions a nickname for Annie Chapman I've never heard before too.

[Wickerman]

Mary is said to have had a friend named Lizzie Williams, that's all that comes to mind.

Regards, Jon S.

[Debra A]

How Brown has now snipped and posted the full article for me here

[DVV]

Awesome stuff, Debs. Thanks for sharing (once more !)
Was there an Inspector "Conquest" ?? or would it be "West" ?

[Debra A]

Thanks for showing an interest, Dave.
There was indeed an Inspector John conquest who was a CID inspector attached to Bow Street.

[Debra A]

This must be too peripheral for comment...no conspiracy

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Debs

Obviously it's a very interesting discovery, but I'm not sure how much importance to place on the evidence. In fact I did consider the obvious response, that the old boys memory was clearly defective...vide:

The new improved Whitechapel Mortuary that the doctors were clearly so happy with...

The Eddowes case that despite being a city murder ended up in Whitechapel...

The Kelly case which didn't really end up in Shoreditch mortuary after all...

However, I held back, for fear of seeming unduly dismissive...

The Williams surname is interesting because of the possible Welsh marriage...but even a glutton for hard work like you Debs surely isn't going to plunge into researching Williams families in Wales? Tell me it ain't true (we won't hear from you for years!)

All the best

Dave

[curious]

This must be too peripheral for comment...no conspiracy

great stuff, Debs,

Does it surprise you that he thought so many of the victims were unidentified?

And the Mary Williams bit is very intriguing. Could Williams be an Irish name?

I'm guessing this has gone without fanfare because people are out and busy today.

Thanks so much for sharing.

curious

[Fleetwood Mac]

great stuff, Debs,

Does it surprise you that he thought so many of the victims were unidentified?

And the Mary Williams bit is very intriguing. Could Williams be an Irish name?

I'm guessing this has gone without fanfare because people are out and busy today.

Thanks so much for sharing.

curious

Think Williams is a Welsh name.

[lynn cates]

identification

Hello Debs. Nice find.

Out of curiousity, I wonder how the old sailor was able to identify her?

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hi Debs

Obviously it's a very interesting discovery, but I'm not sure how much importance to place on the evidence. In fact I did consider the obvious response, that the old boys memory was clearly defective...vide:

The new improved Whitechapel Mortuary that the doctors were clearly so happy with...

The Eddowes case that despite being a city murder ended up in Whitechapel...

The Kelly case which didn't really end up in Shoreditch mortuary after all...

However, I held back, for fear of seeming unduly dismissive...

The Williams surname is interesting because of the possible Welsh marriage...but even a glutton for hard work like you Debs surely isn't going to plunge into researching Williams families in Wales? Tell me it ain't true (we won't hear from you for years!)

All the best

Dave

Hi Dave
Aww, come on- there's a world of difference in commenting on a newspaper report posted by someone and having doubts about the contents of that report compared to posting a one line comment dismissing detailed research without bothering to read all that research...and you know it.

All your concerns about the article are valid, practically everyone will think the same about those, I'm sure but I do find that the matter of fact way details are given about these identifications quite intriguing, it doesn't seem to be being done for attention or sensation-just stating facts and we do know there were problems over identifying Elizabeth Stride, she was originally identifed as Elizabeth Watts and there was a delay identifiying Eddowes and the name Phoebe the jewess was first mentioned I believe? And Alice McKenzie's identification was also a bit vague back then too, just as he says.

Of course I'm not about to spend the rest of my life looking for Mary Williams! But what if that is her? What if she was Mary Williams and was identified by her old sailor father after all the paperwork had been done out for Mary Jane Kelly identified by Barnett? What if everything in her past as told to Barnett was just made up or exaggerated rather than a cover-up for sinister reasons and she was born Mary Williams and there are no further details recorded?

[DVV]

Can we all agree that Mary was whether Irelsh or Welish ?

[Debra A]

great stuff, Debs,

Does it surprise you that he thought so many of the victims were unidentified?

And the Mary Williams bit is very intriguing. Could Williams be an Irish name?

I'm guessing this has gone without fanfare because people are out and busy today.

Thanks so much for sharing.

curious

Thanks very much for your kind reply, Curious.
I wasn't looking for a fanfare but I was surprised that there was no real interest at all.

As I just mentioned in my post to Dave, there were documented problems about the identities of a few of the victims, so that does ring true to some extent.

The name Williams is usually linked to Wales not Ireland but I think we also have to take on board that if MJK did give a false name to Barnett she could also have lied about every other aspect of her past-so Mary Williams as MJK wouldn't necessarily have been Irish and married a Welshman. Indeed, she had a father who was a sailor and not working in an iron works!

[Debra A]

Hello Debs. Nice find.

Out of curiousity, I wonder how the old sailor was able to identify her?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn.
No details are given on the identification-if it happened, so unless another similar story turned up there is no way of knowing.

I just still get quite excited when a story turns up with completely new details in never seen before proving we haven't seen it all yet!

[DVV]

As I just mentioned in my post to Dave, there were documented problems about the identities of a few of the victims, so that does ring true to some extent.

Exactly what I felt as I read it, Debs.