Welsh born Scots Guards

[Debra A]

Hi Debs,

I've been through the 1881 Llantarnam census from start to finish (140 odd pages) & the closest I can find to Dalton is the Doulton family, headed by Nicholas, which I referred to earlier. I'll check Cwmbran too, but if that produces a negative result, I don't know where else to look.

Regards, Bridewell.

I haven't been able to find him either, Bridewell.
Perhaps they had a family visit to Ireland in April 1881 or the records for their entry were damaged, unreadable or lost?
I believe you found Mr Dalton Snr. (can you tell I've forgotten his name at the moment) in 1891 so they didn't disappear forever.

Dr Hopper, thanks for the comments.
I'm still not too sure about Jho. Jones and that 1871 entry at the St George's barracks that Bridewell found. There are questions about the Scots Fusiliers versus Scots Guards that still probably need answering.

[Bridewell]

I believe you found Mr Dalton Snr. (can you tell I've forgotten his name at the moment) in 1891 so they didn't disappear forever.

Hi Debs,

His name's James Dalton, born Whitchurch, Ireland and in 1891 he's 63 & living at 7, Ship Row, Llantarnam with Hannah Clement (48), born Waterford, Ireland whose relationship to him is described as "Servant". She could still be a family member perhaps. I think you could be right about the family visit to Ireland in 1881, although Nicholas is in the Joint Counties Lunatic Asylum at Abergavenny.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Debra A]

Hi Debs,

His name's James Dalton, born Whitchurch, Ireland and in 1891 he's 63 & living at 7, Ship Row, Llantarnam with Hannah Clement (48), born Waterford, Ireland whose relationship to him is described as "Servant". She could still be a family member perhaps. I think you could be right about the family visit to Ireland in 1881, although Nicholas is in the Joint Counties Lunatic Asylum at Abergavenny.

Regards, Bridewell.

Thanks,B.
I think Nicholas was in the asylum in 1911 too. Probably why his name wasn't given as next of kin.

[Bridewell]

His name's James Dalton, born Whitchurch, Ireland and in 1891 he's 63 & living at 7, Ship Row, Llantarnam with Hannah Clement (48), born Waterford, Ireland whose relationship to him is described as "Servant". She could still be a family member perhaps. I think you could be right about the family visit to Ireland in 1881, although Nicholas is in the Joint Counties Lunatic Asylum at Abergavenny.

It's probably no more than coincidence, but there was a Mary Jane CLEMENT born in 1861 in Llanelly, Carmarthenshire.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Cogidubnus]

Ta muchly

I think we owe Debs and Colin a debt of gratitude for the amount of slog and hard work they've put in here...I didn't want this thread to simply fade away without saying so

Thanks

Dave

[Bridewell]

Thanks

I think we owe Debs and Colin a debt of gratitude for the amount of slog and hard work they've put in here...I didn't want this thread to simply fade away without saying so

Thanks

Dave

Thanks, Dave, but Debs should get the lion(esse)'s share of the credit for getting the thing going in the first place. I'm still mystified that I can't pinpoint the Daltons in 1881, but perhaps they'll turn up in the end.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Debra A]

I think we owe Debs and Colin a debt of gratitude for the amount of slog and hard work they've put in here...I didn't want this thread to simply fade away without saying so

Thanks

Dave

Thanks for that, Dave. It's nice to get encouragement when it comes to something like this rather than the pessimistic moaning and flinging of cold water that seems to happen so regularly.
We didn't find anything this time...but we could have. Always worth a stab.
Colin, you did far more of the genealogical follow up than I did, which was a brilliant help.

[Cogidubnus]

Hi Debs/Colin

We didn't find anything this time...but we could have. Always worth a stab.

I think the act of not finding anything with either this, or the previous search for Irish-born soldiers proves, in itself, a good deal...as I think Debs previously posited...

I'm almost tempted to say, over to Lynn...but as Colin, all too sensibly (boo hiss!), points out, that may or may not be an assumption too far at this stage!

All the best

Dave

[Debra A]

Hi Debs/Colin



I think the act of not finding anything with either this, or the previous search for Irish-born soldiers proves, in itself, a good deal...as I think Debs previously posited...

I'm almost tempted to say, over to Lynn...but as Colin, all too sensibly (boo hiss!), points out, that may or may not be an assumption too far at this stage!

All the best

Dave

That's true, Dave. The act of not finding specifics e.g. a Scots Guard born in Limerick might say something.There's always the possibility of error though....there were a lot of flippin records to trawl through there, 600+ with no birthplace given in the index! So if anyone finds something in a few year time don't shoot me, I did my best.

[curious]

Debra,

You do amazing work. I doubt anyone here would consider you shootable.

Thanks to you and Bridewell both for putting in the time and effort.

And sometimes things do show up later having been mislabeled or misfiled, as my genealogy work has shown me.

So there may still be hope.

[Bridewell]

It's not Scots Guards related, but it is MJK:

In the 1881 census there is an Ireland-born Mary Jane Kelly, aged 17, living at 337 Brick Cottages, Barrow in Furness. She is a Jute Weaver. Her father (Hugh - not John), (40) also Ireland-born, is an Engine Fitter's Labourer. Mother is Letitia (39) born Ireland. There are also the following, shown as children of the Head of the Household:
Ellen (13), Sarah (11), Elizabeth (9), all born in Blackpool. It's not Wales, but it fits with an MJK who left Ireland as a young child (under 4?). The last name on the list is a son: John (28) Mariner, also born in Ireland. (Why is he last on the list as the eldest child?)
Next door at No.336 is another Kelly family: John & Margaret (both 21) & born in Ireland, with an infant son, also called John (3 months). Cousins perhaps?!

Regards, Bridewell.

[Debra A]

Hi Miss M. as Bridwell has shown with his first choice to research, the Daltons were originally from Ireland. I don't think we should assume just going by the names. I noticed another with Iirish connections too.

There are a few Irish Catholic Scots Guards in the records as well.
As I put in another thread, soldiers were attested in different places, a lot in London.

Just bumping this thread as I have been doing some more research in to the number of Roman Catholics attested in to the Scots Guards as I keep saying it stated as a fact that the Irish Catholics or Catholics of Irish heritage but born elsewhere, would not join the Scots Guards.
In a rough sample I did from the attestation registers of men attested between 1881 and 1886 there were roughly 6% of the men stated to be Roman Catholic.

I also wanted to add that Thomas Dalton, the man Bridwell originally started research who was born in Wales, was a Roman Catholic himself. I didn't mention that at the time of the original research.

[GUT]

Thanks for the update Debra

[DirectorDave]

Just bumping this thread as I have been doing some more research in to the number of Roman Catholics attested in to the Scots Guards as I keep saying it stated as a fact that the Irish Catholics or Catholics of Irish heritage but born elsewhere, would not join the Scots Guards.
In a rough sample I did from the attestation registers of men attested between 1881 and 1886 there were roughly 6% of the men stated to be Roman Catholic.

I also wanted to add that Thomas Dalton, the man Bridwell originally started research who was born in Wales, was a Roman Catholic himself. I didn't mention that at the time of the original research.

Hi Debs, just from my own family history the link between Roman Catholicism and Irish Republicanism (or home rule as it was then) was not as ingrained as it is today.

[Debra A]

Hi Debs, just from my own family history the link between Roman Catholicism and Irish Republicanism (or home rule as it was then) was not as ingrained as it is today.

Hi DD, thanks for that. I wondered if that was the case. It is an interesting subject.

On a side note; one Irish Scots Guard I have been researching who is listed as a Roman Catholic in the enlistment registers and in his attestation papers, married in Dublin in a Church of Ireland Church while the regiment was in Dublin.