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  • Bury the hatchett?

    This is probably a dumb thread but it wouldn't be my first.

    I've read and seen this hatchett business mentioned in regards MJK. But I haven't seen
    much of substance. Perhaps someone can enlighten me?

    Firstly, where did this hatchett notion come from? Was it press or police or conjecturer and was this something the police were trying to keep silent?

    Secondly, what or where is the evidence that a hatchett was found in the room?

    Thirdly, why would MJK have a hatchett in her room? To cut up wood for the fire? Isn't a saw easier?
    I'm assuming the ripper wasn't hauling a hatchett around in his toolkit.

    If MJK was afraid of the ripper perhaps she should have kept said hatchett at her bedside?

    Lastly, was there evidence of hatchett slices on the body?

    If this has also been discussed before I apologize...


    Greg

  • #2
    source

    Hello Greg. I was wondering the source of your article? There may have been a snippet in "The Echo" but I don't recall seeing it in the others.

    Cheers.
    LC

    Comment


    • #3
      Greg,

      I don't have personal knowledge of this, but recall reading on another thread that someone with medical training had examined the MJK images and had been confident that at least one of the injuries had been caused with a hatchet or a meat cleaver. I thing the reference was to a wound in the shin-bone but, as I say, I'm quoting from memory. Hopefully the original source of that other post will pop up and confirm, or deny, the accuracy of my recall.

      Regards, Bridewell.
      "It is a capital mistake to theorise before one has data. Insensibly one begins twisting facts to suit theories instead of theories to suit facts." Sir Arthur Conan Doyle (as Sherlock Holmes).

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      • #4
        Wondering myself...

        I don't have personal knowledge of this, but recall reading on another thread that someone with medical training had examined the MJK images and had been confident that at least one of the injuries had been caused with a hatchet or a meat cleaver. I thing the reference was to a wound in the shin-bone but, as I say, I'm quoting from memory. Hopefully the original source of that other post will pop up and confirm, or deny, the accuracy of my recall.
        Hello Greg. I was wondering the source of your article? There may have been a snippet in "The Echo" but I don't recall seeing it in the others.
        Hi Bridewell and Lynn,

        I don't have any source for any article Lynn. I remember, as Bridewell does, that someone conjectured via the second MJK photo that a hatchett was used. And I just finished Beadle's Bury book and he also mentions it. I was just wondering if there was any more to this than conjecture?


        Greg

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        • #5
          For what it's worth - I took Donald Rumbelow's walk back in 2000, and I remember that when he described Kelly's injuries he stated that an axe had been used on the thigh. I quickly checked the Miller's Court chapter of his book, but it's not in there.

          Comment


          • #6
            It's there on the bedside table in both interior photos. You can't miss it.

            Comment


            • #7
              Butcher tools.....!

              It's there on the bedside table in both interior photos. You can't miss it.
              I thought you were joking at first Scott but I looked and lo and behold. Now I see what is called a meat cleaver which is a far cry from a hatchet or axe in my view. But what interests me is, what are the implications of said meat cleaver?


              Greg
              Attached Files

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              • #8
                implications

                Hello Greg. Well, for one thing, you must be very careful if THAT is concealed beneath your coat. For example, you would need to be careful the direction of the sharp edge should you decide to embrace an unfortunate.

                Cheers.
                LC

                Comment


                • #9
                  Much to imply...

                  Originally posted by lynn cates View Post
                  Hello Greg. Well, for one thing, you must be very careful if THAT is concealed beneath your coat. For example, you would need to be careful the direction of the sharp edge should you decide to embrace an unfortunate.

                  Cheers.
                  LC
                  Yes Lynn, these are the sort of surmises I'm interested in. Are we back to the shiny black bag or parcel ripper? ..where he kept his wrapped up meat cleaver!

                  This thing would do a heckuva job slicing a throat to the vertebrae. Why did he leave it here but not elsewhere? Did he know this was his grand finale!

                  Well, we must then suggest it was a possession of MJK's. Why would she have a meat cleaver? Was she a butcher in her spare time?

                  I think I have it now. MJK is the ripper who ended her career with an impressive suicide.........


                  Greg

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                  • #10
                    Very impressive indeed. I think it was Nick Warren of Ripperana, a surgeon, who first suggested an axe based on the second photo. I also seem to remember reading somewhere that the Scotland Yard Black Museum had an axe allegedly used by Jack. I may be wrong about this, though.

                    Best wishes,
                    Steve.

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                    • #11
                      concealment

                      Hello Greg. Well, it seems that MJ's assailant had it concealed SOMEWHERE.

                      Cheers.
                      LC

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        HI all,
                        I believe that it was Nick Warren a Ripperologist and qualified surgeon who thought an axe/hatchet was used on MJK after studying the photo's.

                        He also refers to an article that appeared in the Globe of 16 February 1891 when a reporter visited the convicts office at Scotland Yard where he saw " a hatchet by the door used by the Whitechapel murderer to hack and disfigure the victim in Dorset Street".
                        The convicts office appears to be an early description of the Black Museum.
                        Nick Warrens full account can be read in his chapter in The Mamoth Book of JTR....A good read by the way.

                        Regards.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi again,
                          Just to add that Mr Warren thought it likely that said axe/hatchet and knives were left at the scene and that the police may of held back this info at the time ( we know that the police hold back certain details for what ever reasons today) He also adds that if this was the case, then ( without going into long details ) this could be where the JTR knife owned by Mr Rumbelow originated from, if genuine.

                          Regards.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            There must be more...

                            Thanks Spyglass, good stuff. If this was indeed at the crime scene it seems significant to me. I know it was pre DNA and fingerprints but still it should offer some valuable evidence if left by the killer. Where was it made? How many in Whitechapel? Any particular markings on the instrument?

                            I don't know, surely this has been analyzed. Perhaps I should read Nick Warren's report but this seems a significant bit of evidence. Why is it so overlooked? Again, if it's MJK's that's another story but that seems unlikely. Surely someone knows some bit about this, I'm still waiting for the enlightenment.............



                            Greg

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by GregBaron View Post
                              I thought you were joking at first Scott but I looked and lo and behold. Now I see what is called a meat cleaver which is a far cry from a hatchet or axe in my view.
                              I was joking. There is nothing on the table but heaps of flesh. Had there been a weapon found in the room it certainly would have been discussed at the inquest and in police reports.

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