Why didn't anyone notice the bright light of the fire in Mary's room?

[Bridewell]

But according to Maxwell she already tried to have drink-didn't work.

She was sick. She went for another drink. Drink is not a choice for an alcoholic, such as I believe MJK to have been.

. Also, maxwell said she saw mary again outside the bar at 9:00. Bowyer discovered her body at 10:45. So mary would have to have brought back her client, sick as she was, been murdered and mutilated, the fire to have been started clothes burnt and the fire to then die down, her killer to get cleaned up and then get out of there (without having been seen) all in the span of an hour and a half? Thats a bit tight dont you think?

The fire only needs to be started if it wasn't already burning. He had 5 minutes for Eddowes. That's "a bit tight", but he managed it. The killing (strangulation) would take about a minute, perhaps less. An hour and a half - "working" flat out? Why is that not possible?

Regards, Bridewell.

[Cogidubnus]

I don't buy the idea of Caroline Maxwell getting the wrong day. Her witness statement is dated 9th November. 'Wrong Day' would require her to be unable to tell the difference between what happened today and what happened yesterday.

I agree...she remembered going to buy milk that day, and the police checked her testimony and it tallied in that respect...

Either she and Maurice Lewis (who claimed to have known MJK for 5 years) are both mistaken or both lying - or both are telling the truth. If just one person was claiming to have seen MJK that morning, the possibility of error would be significant, but two seems unlikely.

Sorry, but the two do not necessarily equate...here I can't agree...Maxwell (who clearly did know which day it was) might well've thought MJK was in fact someone else, whilst Lewis could for example have been the local drunk (who couldn't tell one day from the next)...Maxwell was called to give evidence at the Coroner's Hearing...I can't recall...was Lewis? Bearing in mind the critical importance of this testimony, if not, why not?

I wonder whether her vomiting episode is congruent with the fish and chips found in her stomach?

Depends how many portions Jack McCarthy was accustomed to serve up free and gratis to vomiting drunks who owed him 6 weeks rent at breakfast time Lynn!

The fire only needs to be started if it wasn't already burning. He had 5 minutes for Eddowes. That's "a bit tight", but he managed it. The killing (strangulation) would take about a minute, perhaps less. An hour and a half - "working" flat out? Why is that not possible?

If the fire wasn't started, well draughted or not, it's got to be blazing well enough to completely consume clothes within how long?

Sorry Colin...it doesn't really work for me...It's got to be a night-time killing (though I agree not necessarily at Diddles time!)

All the best

Dave

[Bridewell]

Maxwell was called to give evidence at the Coroner's Hearing...I can't recall...was Lewis? Bearing in mind the critical importance of this testimony, if not, why not?

Hi Dave,

Lewis, a tailor, was interviewed by a newspaper. He lived on Dorset Street, claimed to have known MJK for 5 years, and claimed to have seen her, also, on the night of the murder, drinking in the Horn of Plenty with Julia (Venturney?) and Danny (Barnett?). As for why he didn't give evidence at her inquest, it was over and done with inside 3 days, so maybe the police hadn't spoken to him?

Night murder or early morning? I don't think either should be wholly discounted on the available evidence.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Cogidubnus]

Night murder or early morning? I don't think either should be wholly discounted on the available evidence.

Hi Colin

I suspect the evidence so far lies more in my favour than yours, but I don't think we're going to fall out over this...(if it helps, I did at one time lean your way!...oh god let's get this clear...I'm talking timewise not...err not...on no account...scottish wise!)

Every good wish!

Dave

[Bridewell]

Hi Dave,

I'll take that as a "No" vote for Limerigg then! (Understandable as I haven't turned up anyone of serious interest). And no, I don't think we're going to fall out over this - I suspect it takes more than a difference of opinion to cause that kind of reaction in either of us.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Wickerman]

Hi Dave,

Lewis, a tailor, was interviewed by a newspaper. He lived on Dorset Street, claimed to have known MJK for 5 years,

MJK only came to London in '84 so that claim isn't worth the paper it was written on, unless Lewis also had this "wrong woman" in mind?
Even after '84 Kelly moved around quite a bit so assuming Lewis had the right woman, then he simply couldn't have known her for that long.

Regards, Jon S.

[curious]

MJK only came to London in '84

Regards, Jon S.

Well, nothing she told can be confirmed, why should be this accepted as truth?

[Beowulf]

What an interesting thought...now taken with a certain red flower in another case there's food for thought...has Jack started dating them?

Dave

Maybe Jack didn't care whether or not they solicited, but had a taste for the kill and she was obviously available woman, although that would seem to eliminate the motive for killing based on religiousity, or some other moral indignation.

What I wonder is evidently he met her out on Dorset street. Did he KNOW ahead of time she lived in a dwelling? Did he already have an idea of who she was? I wonder if he picked her for the idea she had an apartment, as the heat was on and he'd be inside out of sight. Then discovered how dim it was inside.

[BTCG]

MJK only came to London in '84 so that claim isn't worth the paper it was written on, unless Lewis also had this "wrong woman" in mind?
Even after '84 Kelly moved around quite a bit so assuming Lewis had the right woman, then he simply couldn't have known her for that long.

Regards, Jon S.

And... the Kelly murder, most likely, isn't a Ripper crime, anyways (IMHO).

[Wickerman]

Well, nothing she told can be confirmed, why should be this accepted as truth?

If Maurice Lewis had known Kelly when she lived away off in Pennington St. 2-3 years previous, he had ample opportunity to say so.

Regards, Jon S.

[Abby Normal]

She was sick. She went for another drink. Drink is not a choice for an alcoholic, such as I believe MJK to have been.



The fire only needs to be started if it wasn't already burning. He had 5 minutes for Eddowes. That's "a bit tight", but he managed it. The killing (strangulation) would take about a minute, perhaps less. An hour and a half - "working" flat out? Why is that not possible?

Regards, Bridewell.

Oh so now shes an alcoholic?You knew her? piss off!

Your reasoning is as poor as your judgement

[Cogidubnus]

Lewis

Spot on Jon...couldn't have put it better myself!

Dave

[Bridewell]

Oh so now shes an alcoholic?You knew her? piss off!

Your reasoning is as poor as your judgement

Read the post. I said that I believe she was alcoholic. She had had a drink at breakfast time, which makes that a not unreasonable opinion. Feel free to disagree, but please refrain from personal abuse.

regards, Bridewell.

[c.d.]

Wouldn't the burning of clothes lead to smoke and a rather unpleasant smell? It would seem the last thing her killer would want would be someone knocking on the door in an attempt to find out what was going on.

c.d.

[Wickerman]

Many of these people couldn't afford coal or coke, and I can't see where they would get wood from. I read somewhere that it was common for people to scrape up dried horse droppings from the street because it burns good in a fire.
Perhaps the smell of burning clothes was like a breath of fresh air...

Regards, Jon S.