Limerick, the Key?

[Pcdunn]

I don't think Kelly was her birth name, however, which makes it harder to identify her in census records.

[JadenCollins]

I think the first step is so figure out who she was then we can go to step 2, AKA finding "Jack", there could be something that can lead us to the killer, unless the killer is already known and we just overlooked some things.

I agree with Pat, her last name isn't "Kelly", if it was Kelly, we would have found her by now. If she's from Wales pretending to be Irish ( like mentioned in many threads on here ) she definitely chose Kelly, just 'cause of that reason. I'm not sure about her first and middle name either, Mary Jane is a quite common name...

It's easy to pick a different name, it's not like someone could actually track her down back then.


Anyways does anyone know what Dr. Weston-Davies is up to? Any progress on that?







Jaden

[Mayerling]

Wilton was Sexton at St. Leonards and paid for Kelly's funeral.

Does anyone know why Mr. Wilton paid for Mary's funeral?

Had she somehow been associated with St. Leonards?

Jeff

[Rosella]

The St Peter Port Star newspaper of Guernsey (of all places) had a full account of the funeral in its 22nd November 1888 issue. It stated that Mr Wilton, sexton of St Leonards for over fifty years, stepped forward when no relatives appeared and took on the cost of the funeral himself as 'a mark of sympathy for the poor people of the neighbourhood.'

Landlord MacCarthy didn't attend the funeral but sent a female representative. I think Joe Barnett was the only male among the mourners. They apparently, according to another newspaper report, fortified themselves for the ordeal of the funeral by popping into a pub for a few minutes on the way to St Leonards and then paid another visit afterwards to a different pub!

[GUT]

Does anyone know why Mr. Wilton paid for Mary's funeral?

Had she somehow been associated with St. Leonards?

Jeff

All the reports I've read just seems a good deed. He felt sorry for her (or even tham).

[SuspectZero]

I think the first step is so figure out who she was then we can go to step 2, AKA finding "Jack", there could be something that can lead us to the killer, unless the killer is already known and we just overlooked some things.

I agree with Pat, her last name isn't "Kelly", if it was Kelly, we would have found her by now. If she's from Wales pretending to be Irish ( like mentioned in many threads on here ) she definitely chose Kelly, just 'cause of that reason. I'm not sure about her first and middle name either, Mary Jane is a quite common name...

It's easy to pick a different name, it's not like someone could actually track her down back then.


Anyways does anyone know what Dr. Weston-Davies is up to? Any progress on that?







Jaden

I think if we worked as a team instead of by ourselves we could figure this out. Might be wishful thinking on my part though.

[SuspectZero]

This one maybe in 1881 census?

Mary Kelly, Unmarried, aged 23, Prostitute, Born Whitechapel.
I believe she was in local workhouse.

I did find one born local with father John and a lot of brothers also....

Pat...

I always wondered if this was her.

[Rosella]

However, wasn't our Mary hiding at one point because her father was coming to Whitechapel to find her, or is that just a story? If it was true, you would think a man who had lived in Whitechapel, and presumably had contacts in the district still, would be able to locate her fairly quickly. MacCarthy said she got letters from her mother in Ireland, so did the parents go back there after living and working in Whitechapel? Also, didn't she have a Welsh/Irish accent? Not easy to face that 24/7 I wouldn't have thought!

[SuspectZero]

However, wasn't our Mary hiding at one point because her father was coming to Whitechapel to find her, or is that just a story? If it was true, you would think a man who had lived in Whitechapel, and presumably had contacts in the district still, would be able to locate her fairly quickly. MacCarthy said she got letters from her mother in Ireland, so did the parents go back there after living and working in Whitechapel? Also, didn't she have a Welsh/Irish accent? Not easy to face that 24/7 I wouldn't have thought!

Good points.

[JadenCollins]

I think if we worked as a team instead of by ourselves we could figure this out. Might be wishful thinking on my part though.

Exactly!

[Mayerling]

For myself, this is a step one: What is a "sexton"?

It turns out this figure is in charge (at least in the 20th Century) of the physical plant of the church, as he is to see everything is in good condition and running well, and he helps orders supplies. In the 19th Century he might have the same duties, but was also in charge of the church grounds and the burial ground.

So our Sexton was in charge of St. Leonard's graveyard. Now my question becomes, did he have the power to decide who could be buried in the church graveyard, or did he need permission from the clergyman and the deacon and others as to bringing in new internments? I would have to assume that his willingness to start a collection to bury Mary at St. Leonard's required some form of permission.

Jeff

[GUT]

For myself, this is a step one: What is a "sexton"?

It turns out this figure is in charge (at least in the 20th Century) of the physical plant of the church, as he is to see everything is in good condition and running well, and he helps orders supplies. In the 19th Century he might have the same duties, but was also in charge of the church grounds and the burial ground.

So our Sexton was in charge of St. Leonard's graveyard. Now my question becomes, did he have the power to decide who could be buried in the church graveyard, or did he need permission from the clergyman and the deacon and others as to bringing in new internments? I would have to assume that his willingness to start a collection to bury Mary at St. Leonard's required some form of permission.

Jeff

It would depend on his clergymen.

Some were pretty much allowed to run the place others were strictly limited in what they were allowed do.

I found notes in one church's BDM records that the Sexton had made most of the entries because the Clergyman assigned that task to him, but that clergyman was in charge of a number of churches so he probably delegated a lot of the detail work in each local church to the Sexton as the Clergman seemed to only get to the fringe churches every couple of months, with laymen filling in at other times.

Now I imagine a City Church the vicar would only have one church to look after, but if in another area he had one of those circuits with multiple churches he may well have continued with his delegation mindset. Or it may Have been that the Clergyman was happy with the idea, maybe even the originator but a the £sd were collected by the Sexton he was seen as the one behind it.

[SuspectZero]

It would depend on his clergymen.

Some were pretty much allowed to run the place others were strictly limited in what they were allowed do.

I found notes in one church's BDM records that the Sexton had made most of the entries because the Clergyman assigned that task to him, but that clergyman was in charge of a number of churches so he probably delegated a lot of the detail work in each local church to the Sexton as the Clergman seemed to only get to the fringe churches every couple of months, with laymen filling in at other times.

Now I imagine a City Church the vicar would only have one church to look after, but if in another area he had one of those circuits with multiple churches he may well have continued with his delegation mindset. Or it may Have been that the Clergyman was happy with the idea, maybe even the originator but a the £sd were collected by the Sexton he was seen as the one behind it.

I read in s paper that Msry was close to a church. The priest was quoted as knowing her and seemed to have knowledge of her origins. Perhaps he was connected to St. Leonard's.

[DJA]

with laymen filling in at other times.

Is that an informed gravediggers pun?

[Bridewell]

To start to find Mary, it would be useful to eliminate Limerick MKS born in the 1860s. If it was possible to trace various Marys, one might emerge who could be a contender.

MK born 1864 Castletown, parents John Kelly and Anne McCarthy.
That Castletown one has always been my favourite. Two brothers,John born 1866, Peter born 1868 and a sister whom Ive lost!

Happy New Year, Miss Marple

I like this one too. Father named John, about the right age, born in County Limerick, brother also named John, but especially the mother's surname being McCarthy. It would explain how MJK was allowed to build up so much debt in rent arrears and how her landlord knew that her family were still able to contact her by letter and, indeed, how they did so.