IMPORTANT - update on the alleged Kelly family photo

[Chris Scott]

I have today received a message from a friend of mine who does a lot of web based research. At my request he had been looking into the alleged Kelly photos. Imagine my surprise this morning when I received the image below! It is undoubtedly the same image as I had been sent which purported to be that of Mary Kelly's family. My researcher friend found this as a privately submitted photo on ancestry.co.uk
You will see that on this image there IS some writing on the bottom - I can make out the word Uncle.
The info attached to this image by the submitter says that the elderly man in the middle of the front row is Joseph Kelly and gives his dates as 1824 to 1901. His wife is named as Bridget Kelly and her maiden name is given as Mannix.
Her dates are given as 1833 to 1913.
From the info supplied on the family tree attached to the photo, it seems certain I have been misled or the lady who sent this to me genuinely believed what she told me but was wrong.
the reason I say this is that facts given about this Joseph Kelly are listed below as on Ancestry.
The crucial thing here is that Joseph and Bridget were married in 1852 in the USA so he had emigrated young The couple did have a daughter named Mary of about the right age. Her name is given as Mary Katherine Kelly and her dates as 1860 to 1928
The family spent its whole time in Mississippi
So it is apparent that this family has NOTHING WHATEVER TO DO WITH MARY KELLY
Whether I have been the object of a deliberate hoax or whether the lady who sent this material to me back in 2009 did so in good faith I know not. Needless to say I have sent this discovery to her for comment but have so far received nothing.
Obviously this casts severe if not fatal doubt on the alleged pic of Mary Kelly herself.
My apologies for basically wasting your time but I did act in good faith and only after a lengthy period - if I have been deliberately hoaxed I fail to understand the motive or the satisfaction in it
Chris Scott

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi Chris

Thanks for the update. Several observations. It would seem that the writing at the bottom of the family photograph was removed so that information would not lead us to the Kelly family who had been long-time resident in the United States. Similarly, the photograph of "Mary Jane Kelly" then most likely is just a photograph of some woman in a period hat that was also picked up somewhere and represented as being MJK and the sister of the boys in the Kelly family photograph. Finally, Bob Hinton was correct in his opinion that the Kelly family photo looks as if it shows a long-established midwest American family and not a photograph of recent immigrants from Ireland.

Best regards

Chris

[Livia]

Hi Chris,

Yes, the writing says, "Uncles Gran Pap and Ma".

There are at least 10 more lineages on Ancestry that
claim this family in their heritage and a few of the
owners have been members longer than two years.

There is one that is particularily suspect, username:

debbie1uqltsejv7ou3l9s15pugssc2i7ht

joined two years ago in 2010, last log in 10 months ago.

I say suspect, because who would want to type all
that gibberish in every time they logged in?

Well, it was fun while it lasted, and no one should
hold you responsible as you did voice your skepticism
clearly enough.

One good thing though, it's revived interest in MJK's
origins.

Liv

[Chris Scott]

Hi guys
My only concern is that any item like this is that, if it is exposed as not what is claimed, this must be made available openly as soon as possible.
Possible feelings of embarrassment or frustration must not be allowed to obscure the factual information.
It will be interesting to see if the alleged "Mary" picture can be traced and what its source is.

Liv
Many thanks for the additional info which I will be looking into

Chris G
many thanks for the message and I agree with all the points you make
All the best
Chris S

[Robert]

Hi Chris

No worries, my friend. As you know, this is the kind of thing that is bound to happen from time to time, and it's all in the game. Right from the start you made it crystal clear that these were alleged photographs of Mary and her family, and that you made no claim for their authenticity. Those of us who have spent time on the images and the family did so in the knowledge that it might all prove pointless. The images looked prima facie to be a worthwhile line of research, but anyone who wants to trace Mary Kelly and her family knows that there will be many false starts and blind alleys irrespective of whether there are family contacts or images. It can't be helped.

Thanks for posting the images, Chris.

[lynn cates]

time well spent

Hello Chris. Thanks. I am heartily sorry. However, genuine, honest research is NEVER a waste of time.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Thanks for letting us all know, Chris.
We all have to 'play along' to some extent with these types of claims I feel, and try not to upset the person making them ...just in case!
I'm sorry it ended up this way but I don't think researching anything like this that comes up is ever time wasting. It has to be done.

[ChrisGeorge]

Hi again Chris

I think the forum discussion of the two photographs alone was very enlightening, even if that discussion made us begin to suspect that the photographs were not of what they were alleged to be.

Chris

[Chris Scott]

Thanks for all the comments - I agree that it is not a waste of time and I think that most of us - especially those involved with the case for any length of time - have been made pretty cautious over the years and wary of getting too excited too early.
The one thing that puzzles me is that, in the absence of any request for or offer of financial inducement - if this is a hoax (either with me or the lady who contacted me as the target) then what was the motive?

[ChrisGeorge]

Thanks for all the comments - I agree that it is not a waste of time and I think that most of us - especially those involved with the case for any length of time - have been made pretty cautious over the years and wary of getting too excited too early.
The one thing that puzzles me is that, in the absence of any request for or offer of financial inducement - if this is a hoax (either with me or the lady who contacted me as the target) then what was the motive?

Hello Chris

Look at it this way, Chris. There was no financial motive in someone sending all those obviously bogus Jack the Ripper letters either.

Chris

[Bridewell]

No Apology Needed

Hello Chris

Look at it this way, Chris. There was no financial motive in someone sending all those obviously bogus Jack the Ripper letters either.

Chris

Chris,

You have nothing for which to apologise. It was quite encouraging that everyone reacted with great caution, as you did yourself. The photographs are interesting, whatever their origin.

On a lighter note, the lady who looks like Michael Atherton is standing next to a bloke who resembles a young Alan Shearer!

Thanks for posting them, and for the promptness of your clarification.

Regards, Bridewell.

[lynn cates]

honest mistake?

Hello Chris, Chris. Could it have been an honest mistake?

Cheers.
LC

[Livia]

Hello Chris

Look at it this way, Chris. There was no financial motive in someone sending all those obviously bogus Jack the Ripper letters either.

Chris

Except for the reporters/newspapers who profited from
increased sales.

It's quite possible that the owner of these pictures
believed what she had been told by her family about
MJK and had no knowledge of all the other branches.
In the course of my own family research, I discovered
six of my father's first cousins, still living and scattered
all over the US, about which he knew nothing. One was
101 when they met for the first time and lived about
15 miles away.

Many families have legends passed down to them and
discovering whether they are true or not is part of
the fascination of family history. For instance, look at
any Davy message board and most will have heard
they are related to the famous chemist Humphrey
Davy. Pretty neat trick since he had no children.
When this turns out to be untrue, they turn to his
brother John, who did have children, but only through
the female line who did not carry the Davy name. Yet,
they still believe.

In my own family, there were rumors of a vast estate
in Britain owed to either the descandants of the Earl
of Clarendon or Colonel Thomas Horton (regicide and
signer of Charles I's death warrant). I never did figure
out which, the Hyde or the Horton estates. The story
as passed down through the various branches (unknown
to each other) was very vague. The Clarendons
died out or intermarried with other families, but the
Hortons were alive and well and some living in Nova Scotia.
Through the course of trying to track down this
story, I discovered that there had been a booming
industry here in the States for the reclamation of
lost or unclaimed estates from about the 1870s
right up to the early 1900s. Ads were placed in
newspapers all over North America by agents, who
for a "small" fee, would travel to England and put in
a claim at the Chancery Court. It got so bad and the
Court became so swamped, that Parliament passed a
law that no estate could be claimed after seven
years of the testate's death and if an estate was
unclaimed after twenty (?) years or so, the assets
would revert to the Crown. Even after these measures
were taken, people still hired these unscrupulous people
to pursue these claims, and as far as I could determine,
none of them were successful.

So there's all sorts of family legends, some plausible,
some not so much. It's not unusual to see family trees
that claim direct descent from Charlemagne and yes even
Jesus.

Liv

[ChrisGeorge]

So there's all sorts of family legends, some plausible,
some not so much. It's not unusual to see family trees
that claim direct descent from Charlemagne and yes even
Jesus.

Liv

Hi Livia

True. But this Kelly family had been in the United States for generations and were not recent immigrants with a sister who had been recently murdered in Spitalfields. The claimed connection was clearly bogus so I am not sure it was an honest mistake.

Best regards

Chris

[Chris Scott]

Hello Chris, Chris. Could it have been an honest mistake?

Cheers.
LC

Hi Lynn
Until I hear from my correspondent I don't know what she will have to say and until that time it would not be proper for me to speculate on what has been done
Chris