Kellys in the Scots Guards

[PaulB]

Mrs Long lived in Church St. but the press reported it as Church Row, no-one objected there.



Lawende/Lawrence, Venturney/Van Teurney, Baul/Paul, I think we're on safe ground, don't you?


A pretty reasonable parallel (Buki/Buckey) and quite in keeping with the minor spelling errors already given in the press. Of course, it may be difficult to shift preconceived ideas held by some.

Best Wishes, Jon S.

Hi Jon
After nearly a quarter of a decade of having Keith Skinner perched on my right shoulder telling me to check, double check and triple check my facts, I'm afraid that I always err on the side of caution, but, as you say, press reports are littered with so many examples of this kind that we can't really dismiss Mrs Buckey. My only concern is that the census never lists any lodgers with the Buckey's.
Paul

[Debra A]

Hi Debs.
May I ask, when you pointed out the difference in names (in red), were you referring to a confusion of the numbers, or that these soldiers might have enlisted under different names?



Thanks, Jon S.

Hi Jon.
The numbers I used were from a list posted by Neal Shelden a few years ago and some of the first few soldier numbers didn't relate to the name Neal listed next to them but the man below, so they were in fact all Kelly's and covered the whole list, apart from the first one.

There was one Kelly file where it was noted that two different names had been used to enlist in two different Regiments, deserting one and giving a false name when enlisting again. I noted this in the notes I put underneath the individual names. Offhand, James Curden alias Kelly?

[Debra A]

Although she wasn't in the Scots Guards; I did notice that the Emily Buchi listed in London on the 1881 census was a Bucke back home in all the Swansea records.
Just mentioning this because I thought Buchi was an odd spelling choice too.

[PaulB]

Although she wasn't in the Scots Guards; I did notice that the Emily Buchi listed in London on the 1881 census was a Bucke back home in all the Swansea records.
Just mentioning this because I thought Buchi was an odd spelling choice too.

Debs,
Having waded through my Kelly files, my recollection that material had gone missing proved correct insofar as the Regimental Archives are concerned.
On 18 November 1980 I was informed by Major J Hughes of the Scots Guards: 'During the various moves of our Regimental Archives and the two great wars, quite a number of our records were either lost or destroyed...'

Paul
(I posted this on another thread by mistake)

[Debra A]

Thanks for the information, Paul.

[caz]

Sometimes. But I can promise you that very often even family does not know how to spell names or know exactly where a family member is living. I have worked in a newspaper for more than 20 years. If a bride or anniversary story has a name spelled in a peculiar way, we contact our contact to double check, but we take their word for it, even if we are 99.9 percent sure it is wrong. I had one Mother (working in an insurance company by the way) who spelled the name of her daughter 2 different ways on one form. When I called to check, she spelled it a third way. She had to call her daughter to get the correct spelling. Of course, I have known her since school days and she was always spacey.

YES, this is the most extreme example I can come up with in 22 years.

But very, very often we hear "spell it however you think it should be."

Spelling is not that important to most people.

Hi Curious,

True story from the 1980s: a neighbour of ours was telling us down the pub how he went to open a bank account but came away very pissed off and still without an account. He had to complete a form with his full name and put his middle name down as 'Timofy' [sic]. The cashier pointed out that this was incorrect and should be spelled 'Timothy', to which he replied, before storming out: "Whose f---ing name is it anyway?"

Love,

Caz
X

[PaulB]

Hi Curious,

True story from the 1980s: a neighbour of ours was telling us down the pub how he went to open a bank account but came away very pissed off and still without an account. He had to complete a form with his full name and put his middle name down as 'Timofy' [sic]. The cashier pointed out that this was incorrect and should be spelled 'Timothy', to which he replied, before storming out: "Whose f---ing name is it anyway?"

Love,

Caz
X

Shouldn't that have been, "Whose th---ing name is it anyway."

[Garry Wroe]

Spelling is not that important to most people.

It is to journalists, Curious, and was especially so during the late-Victorian era when standards were more rigorous than they are nowadays.

Look, I really don’t know about this one. It may prove to be the case that ‘Mrs Buki’ really has been identified. The problem for me is that, as Simon made clear in an earlier post, he could trace no-one by the name of Buki during the relevant timeframe. Given the rarity of this name, therefore, I find it difficult to accept that a seasoned reporter would have heard the name Buckey and assumed its correct spelling to be Buki. The equivalent rendering would have been Jownz for Jones. Thus, as things stand, I find the Buckey as Buki explanation more than a little implausible.

[curious]

Hi Curious,

True story from the 1980s: a neighbour of ours was telling us down the pub how he went to open a bank account but came away very pissed off and still without an account. He had to complete a form with his full name and put his middle name down as 'Timofy' [sic]. The cashier pointed out that this was incorrect and should be spelled 'Timothy', to which he replied, before storming out: "Whose f---ing name is it anyway?"

Love,

Caz
X

how funny. Mothers give names because they want their perfect little angel to have a name all its own. Then it gets misspelled for all its life. And Mama gets mad. People are so funny.

[curious]

It is to journalists, Curious, and was especially so during the late-Victorian era when standards were more rigorous than they are nowadays.

Look, I really don’t know about this one. It may prove to be the case that ‘Mrs Buki’ really has been identified. The problem for me is that, as Simon made clear in an earlier post, he could trace no-one by the name of Buki during the relevant timeframe. Given the rarity of this name, therefore, I find it difficult to accept that a seasoned reporter would have heard the name Buckey and assumed its correct spelling to be Buki. The equivalent rendering would have been Jownz for Jones. Thus, as things stand, I find the Buckey as Buki explanation more than a little implausible.

I agree with you that we can not be certain, and I am not totally convinced either way. I just know what I have run into researching genealogy and what I encounter with people at work.

It is often mentioned here how crowded the area was, etc. I wonder how much their neighbors, associates, etc. would have known or cared about the spelling of the name.

[curious]

My only concern is that the census never lists any lodgers with the Buckey's.
Paul

This seems very telling and gives me more pause than a spelling glitch.

However, perhaps during a particularly rough patch, they tried borders for a short period of time and it did not work out.

But, of course, no way to know that . . .

[Debra A]

I still think Buchi for Bucke is an odd spelling too, but it's there in the 1881 London census. Luckily there's a forename and place and date of birth for anyone looking for Emily to be able to claim her by, unfortunately there isn't with Mrs. Buki, so Mrs Buckey is a possibility (which I think we all agree on don't we?) until we know different?

[Chris Scott]

I remember from way back a note to myself that the surname BUKI did exist, but simply could not be found in the context of London in the late 1880s.
Buki was/is a Hungarian name and these occurrences of it

Buki (3), Büki (43), Buki (1), Büki (1), Buki (1), Büki (2), Buki (1), Büki (45), Buki (1),

are noted on the BU- surname page at:
RadixIndex : Hungarian genealogy and local history databases

which can be found at

http://www.radixindex.com/surnameindex/surnameindex_bu.shtml

This is a subsection of the site entitled
RadixIndex : Hungarian genealogy and local history databases
at

http://www.radixindex.com/

There is a genealogical thread from 2000 on this very question of the Hungarian name BUKI and its variants at

http://boards.ancestry.com/localities.ceeurope.hungary.general/2964.2966.2974.3024.3026/mb.ashx

The initial message is as follows:
Buki surname variations Suzanne (View posts) Posted: 2 Mar 2000 12:00PM GMT
Classification: Query


Hi Linda,

Janos Bogardi, aka Radix, has a database he has compiled of the craftsmen and shopkeepers in Hungary at the turn of the century. For me, it has become a fantastic reference for variations of the spelling of surnames. I suggest you go to his index for the letter "B" at this site:

http://www.radixindex.com/public/ipab.shtml

Here you will find several different spellings for your Buki/Bukki/Bukky etc. surname.

Spend some time reading about this database; since there are several "hits" here, it may be worth investing the 20 bucks to see if any of these can provide you with some new leads. You can even put in the different names and find what area they are from to see if anything matches.

As far as doing census, passenger record, etc. types of research, the soundex code will remain the same.

Hope this helps,
Suzanne

In the listed replies the most common variants seem to be Bukki and Bukky, both listed as with and without an umlaut over the U.

If I gave the impression in the research notes I posted that I thought the surname BUKI never existed, my apologies. What I meant to convey was that my searches at the time had failed to find any occurrence of it in London the late 1880s.
Chris

[Debra A]

Debs,
Having waded through my Kelly files, my recollection that material had gone missing proved correct insofar as the Regimental Archives are concerned.
On 18 November 1980 I was informed by Major J Hughes of the Scots Guards: 'During the various moves of our Regimental Archives and the two great wars, quite a number of our records were either lost or destroyed...'

Paul
(I posted this on another thread by mistake)

Paul, I've just been giving this a little more thought. I was under the impression that the list Neal Shelden compiled, that I posted at the beginning of the thread, was made from the Muster Rolls for the 2nd battalion Scots Guards 85-88. The records I checked those names against were the Chelsea Pension Records from the Chelsea Hospital and I was able to find all the names on the Muster Rolls in the full pension records, plus extras. Wouldn't that suggest that the pension records are full for that period if two separate sets of records match?
Or am misunderstanding something?

[Debra A]

Mrs. Booty, anyone?

http://forum.casebook.org/showthread.php?t=906&page=2

P.S. This is also a hint that we might carry on this interesting Mrs. Buki discussion over there too?