The ALLEGED photograph of the Kelly family

[Carol]

Hi Carol,
Thanks very much for this snippet, very interesting and it illustrates what I mentioned earlier; that even if a soldier paid himself out it shows in the records.
Did you ever find out why your grandfather bought himself out after 18 months the first time but later re-enlisted and went on to serve 21 years?

Hi Debs,

No idea, I'm afraid. No-one in our family knew he had bought himself out of the Army until my brother did some research about eight years ago. My father (the oldest child) died in 1996 but he had never mentioned it, and his sister and youngest brother, who were still alive when Fred did the research, didn't know about it either.

Carol

[Archaic]

"Fair Emma"

The sobriquet "Fair Emma" dates to at least the 1600's, where it appears in a dramatic work, though it was certainly popularized by the fame of "Fair Emma" Hamilton, the beautiful lover of Admiral Nelson.

I've seen the phrase "Fair Emma" pop up in all kinds of 19th C. novels. In the instances I've come across, the female subject is actually named 'Emma', and is affectionately called "Fair Emma" by admirers and/or the narrator.

So I think it's entirely possible that one of Mary's "working aliases" was actually 'Emma', but of course it's also possible that she was given this sobriquet as a local nickname simply because she was attractive.

Best regards,
Archaic

[lynn cates]

plausible

Hello Bunny.

"of course it's also possible that she was given this sobriquet as a local nickname simply because she was attractive."

Sounds quite plausible. Rather like "Long" Liz--just because she is "Liz," not really tall.

Cheers.
LC

[Archaic]

Prostitution and Assumed Names

Hi Lynn, good example.

I came across a passage relating to the prevalence of assumed names among prostitutes in a book called 'Pornography, Sex Work, and Hate Speech' by Karen Maschke:

"A woman entering prostitution typically acquires a new name, changes her appearance, and creates a fictitious past. She does this not so much to protect herself from the police (although a string of aliases helps), but to rearrange her persona so as to meet the market demand, and in an attempt to save something of herself for herself."

I think the author makes a powerful point. Mary Kelly probably used aliases because in addition to protecting her from acquiring an extensive arrest record under a single name, they also served the crucial function of helping her to preserve a bit of her "true self" for herself alone.

This need is understandable when one reflects on the fact that prostitutes live their lives being treated like public property.

This need would be especially strong if Mary actually came from a better family background than the average Whitechapel prostitute, as her friends and neighbors stated at the inquest, because it would mean that she had "fallen" even further than usual.

The more I think about it, the less likely it seems to me that Mary Jane Kelly was her real name.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Bridewell]

What a superb post that is, Archaic. Thank-you. I agree with you entirely.

Regards, Bridewell.

[Debra A]

Hi Debs,

No idea, I'm afraid. No-one in our family knew he had bought himself out of the Army until my brother did some research about eight years ago. My father (the oldest child) died in 1996 but he had never mentioned it, and his sister and youngest brother, who were still alive when Fred did the research, didn't know about it either.

Carol

Hi Carol,
No worries, I was just being nosey really. I bet his father was pleased to get back some of the money he used to buy him out the first time anyway.

[Semper_Eadem]

The more I think about it, the less likely it seems to me that Mary Jane Kelly was her real name.

Best regards,
Archaic

I agree Bunny. I've thought that myself and stated it numerous times here on the board and on the JTR Forums so you won't get any argument out of me.

I wonder if anyone has gone over the Anglo-Irish census in Ireland to see if any women of a good family born there ended up in England or Wales, because Mary might of have indeed been Irish and had an accent. perhaps she didn't marry Davies but ran off with him and lived in sin for a while until he threw her over leaving her in a lurch as the saying goes. I've been pondering this but I don't have access to the censuses or the time.

The hard part is if this woman murdered by JTR wasn't Mary Kelly then who was she and what was the truth in what she told Barnett and what was not true. If she was fibbing then she must of have been consistent in what she told Barnett, because I think he would of caught her switching stuff around.

[lynn cates]

real name

Hello Bunny. Thanks.

"Mary Kelly probably used aliases because in addition to protecting her from acquiring an extensive arrest record under a single name, they also served the crucial function of helping her to preserve a bit of her "true self" for herself alone."

But one wonders whether she ever felt comfortable enough with Barnett to reveal her true name?

Cheers.
LC

[kevin eeley]

sorry if this has already been linked, but its late and I wanted to post in case I forgot, I found it a while back, but lost the link.
the picture is also here, in an uncropped form,

http://www.ancientfaces.com/photo/joseph-kelly-family/381423/?collection_id=487262&collection=person

so tempting to type yours truly, but I wont

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Well I guess that's a fitting end to the mystery of the well discussed Photo,
Oh dear...
Regards Richard.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I am bewildered that there has been no response, from new posters Kevin attached photo depicting the alleged family of Mary Kelly.
It clearly is the same image that Chris received from his correspondent , the same person who sent the alleged picture of Mary .
This proves conclusively that it was a form of hoax, otherwise sent in the best intentions without intelligent reasoning.
And yet to date no response from Casebook..that is unusual.
Regards Richard.

[richardnunweek]

Hi
With Kind thanks to Debs, who has halted me in my tracks , I had completely forgotten about it being brought up on the boards last year, I can only suggest that my memory played tricks on me, which I hate admitting.. as that would fuel some people into believing my memory is not all that good...which in this case I must admit is correct.
Regards Richard.

[DirectorDave]

Thanks for wasting 3 hours of my life reading these threads.

No sarcasm intended, I would have just wasted it sleeping or watching some crappy telly.

Disappointed this has turned out to be a hoax...but some great side-track discussions along the way.

I'm sure folks will be asking "Why the elaborate hoax?" and I think it is evident in this thread...it's because you are all quite brilliant and if you are going to hoax any group I guess you should try it on the best.

Someone dangled the Holy carrot in front of us and we wanted to believe (although I'm glad I didn't have to endure this in real time!)

We will probably never identify Jack...but there is a chance we could find Mary somewhere and know more about her...the Ricardians found their man in a car park after hundreds of years...keep the faith folks.