2ND battalion Scot's guards

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
Surely the best way to trace Mary Kelly ancestors would be via her brother Johnto?, who we are pretty sure was in the 2ND battalion of the Scots guards based in Cardiff in Nov 1888.
We know that she used to receive letters[ at least one from her brother] and Joseph Barnett remarked that the battalion was now based in Cardiff,
Unless he was well versed on troop movements ,one should assume that this was so,
We also know from Fiona, that the police had contacted his brother, and informed him of his sisters fate, but apart from being sent a parcel of Kelly's meagre worldly goods by Mrs McCarthy, he apparently shunned his sister, as it may have had reflection on his military status.
It is clear, that he was the only next of kin that the authorities were aware of, and by him being sent the parcel, either he was sparing his parents from more sorrow , or more likely the shame of being parents of a London prostitute, cut to pieces by the most infamous murderer imaginable .
If any records of that regiment exists, even if Kelly was not his surname, it might reveal[ although unlikely] at least some leads, we have a starting block.
Regards Richard.

[lynn cates]

research

Hello Richard. That's a very good idea. Tom Wescott has suggested the same privately.

You win. Thanks for the research agenda.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Hi Richard and Lynn,
I've been researching in the Chelsea pension records for the 2nd Batallion Scots Guards for a while now.
I've broken it down in to several areas as there was no Henry or Johnto Kelly as has been confirmed before from the Muster Rolls I think? I'm trying to look at all men active in the regiment during 1888. Men named Kelly, men named Henry, men born in Wales, and men born in Limerick just for starters! Trouble is it's like looking for a needle in a haystack if we don't have the name Kelly to go on. Also there's the possibility he didn't serve long enough for a pension.

Just a small point. I believe the 2nd batallion were in Dublin in 1888 and Barnett said Dublin too and not Cardiff?

[lynn cates]

frustration

Hello Debra. Blast. Like everything else in this bloody case.

Thanks.

Cheers.
LC

[Scott Nelson]

Try Henry Johnson.

[lynn cates]

thanks

Hello Scott. Thanks.

Is this from empirical experience?

Cheers.
LC

[Wickerman]

There never was a "Johnto". Kelly's father's name was "John", her brother's name was "John" too.

[Debra A]

There never was a "Johnto". Kelly's father's name was "John", her brother's name was "John" too.

...allegedly
Don't let this deter anyone researching from trying that name, or variations.

Scott, It's Johnston.

[Wickerman]

...allegedly
Don't let this deter anyone researching from trying that name, or variations.

Scott, It's Johnston.

Be sure to let me know when anyone locates a "Johnto"; Welsh, Irish, Scot, or English, and with established etymology, if you please.

[lynn cates]

OK

Hello Debs. Well, you talked me back into it.

Johnston? What am I missing here?

Cheers.
LC

[timsta]

Be sure to let me know when anyone locates a "Johnto"; Welsh, Irish, Scot, or English, and with established etymology, if you please.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ianto

Regards
Timsta

[Wickerman]

Was it yourself, timsta, who raised that a couple of years ago?

Yes, the suggestion is that "Yan-to" is "Ifan" (Ivan) which means the same as "John", but this does not mean "Johnto". Even in Welsh, "Johnto" does not exist. This is not claiming that Yanto is Johnto, only John.

Unless, Barnett misheard Kelly when she said Henry was nicknamed "Yanto", due to her accent?, he thought she said "Johnto"?, he would never have heard a name like Yanto.

That would explain it, but conflating "too" down to "to" is still very common.

It might be worth investigating if any other Henry's in Wales have been nicknamed "Yanto", and why, what is the connection to the name Henry?

Regards, Jon S.

[Debra A]

but conflating "too" down to "to" is still very common.

.

Jon, it might be a very good possibility to you, but it's certainly not a given, is it?

I was thinking that maybe Barnett did mishear and that the name could be something like the Irish 'Johnjoe' ?

Lynn...nothing.

[lynn cates]

Johnto

Hello Debs. Thanks. "Johnston" sounds more Scots than Irish or Welsh.

Do we know how "Johnto" was pronounced? If there was a mishearing, the correct pronunciation would be helpful to know.

Cheers.
LC

[Debra A]

Lynn, he was from Berkshire.

I imagine Johnto was pronounced Jon-toe, thats why I think it may have been Johnjoe.