Mjk

[lynn cates]

change of mind

Hello Phil.

"I think the whole description smells - too detailed . . ."

Yes, I thought that at one time. Then two excellent veteran researchers--Norma Buddle and Simon Wood--pointed out that Frank Millen's file gave a description very like A-man. Then Christy Campbell gave the official description for Red Jim McDermott and Chris Phillips found a blurb proclaiming Red Jim the ripper.

Both men had worked for Sir Ed.

I had to change my mind.

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

third possibility

Hello Sally. I think I see a third possibility. If one takes GH's story seriously, it seems that A-man knew "MJK" from another time/place.

Why must he be stalking prostitutes?

Cheers.
LC

[lynn cates]

genome

Hello Richard, Sally. You may not have to wait much longer. The BBC genome project should be finished in a month or two. It should include ALL the "Radio Times."

Cheers.
LC

[richardnunweek]

Hi.
One could almost say Mary and the A man, were having a laugh at Hutchinson's expense, almost as if they were intending to be noticed.
We would have Kelly walking out in the streets at 2am, the very area where she remarked to Mrs McCarthy the day before saying ''I hear he is ripe in the area'' [reference to the killer], we have the coincidence that she should play act with Hutch, asking him for money, just a few mitres away from the lingering A man, and what's more he would accost Kelly.
The laughter, the conversation heard , the romantic stroll back to Dorset street, the kiss before entering the court,
Its almost telling the stalking Hutchinson...Remember this... I am entering the court with a bogey man.
Its almost like the couple seen, laughing at the reward poster, before entering the court[ which allegedly was Kelly] by some men in Dorset street that morning.
It really takes some believing, that a woman like Mary Kelly, who was well aware of the killers presence, would journey out alone on the streets at 2am, be picked up by Mr Suspicious, and take him back to a room.
That is unless she knew him very well, and there is more to this then meets the eye?
Regards Richard.

[lynn cates]

well known

Hello Richard.

"It really takes some believing, that a woman like Mary Kelly, who was well aware of the killer's presence, would journey out alone on the streets at 2am, be picked up by Mr Suspicious, and take him back to a room.
That is unless she knew him very well, and there is more to this than meets the eye?"

Now you're talking.

Cheers.
LC

[Jon Guy]

Hi Richard

What do you mean by " a woman like Mary Kelly"?

[richardnunweek]

Hi Jon,
It was actually not a reference to a street walker, it was reflecting on her knowledge of events , one could say ''being paranoid'' of danger, which she apparently was.
Regards Richard.

[Sally]

That was what I thought you meant, Richard. I think it is fair to say that the two witness accounts of MJK's movements that night do not tally very well.

On the one hand she was apparently extremely drunk at around midnight - consistent with returning from the pub after a night drinking.

On the other hand she was apparently no more than slightly tipsy when she was seen on the streets at 2am by Hutchinson.

Assuming the first to be true, one has to wonder how she managed the second.

[lynn cates]

What a difference a day makes.

Hello Sally. Quite.

But please to recall Christer's argument that the A-man sighting was one day earlier.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Sally:

"I think it is fair to say that the two witness accounts of MJK's movements that night do not tally very well.
On the one hand she was apparently extremely drunk at around midnight - consistent with returning from the pub after a night drinking.
On the other hand she was apparently no more than slightly tipsy when she was seen on the streets at 2am by Hutchinson."

There was actually a bright young lad who nailed the reason on the boards a year or so ago - Hutchinson saw Kelly on the day BEFORE as per Dew. This makes for a very good explanation to the sudden sobering up.

If only everybody could do that ... but never mind!

The best,
Fisherman

[Fisherman]

Bugger - Lynn beat me ...

The best,
Fisherman

[lynn cates]

Think fast, Mr. Moto.

Hello Christer. Yes, even we old birds can think fast sometimes.

Cheers.
LC

[Fisherman]

Looking forward to that myself, Lynn ...

The best,
Fisherman

[Sally]

Hi Lynn

Hello Sally. I think I see a third possibility. If one takes GH's story seriously, it seems that A-man knew "MJK" from another time/place.

If one does. Of course, a possibility, but see above. Apparently conflicting witness accounts is only one of the issues here.

Why must he be stalking prostitutes?

Who? Astrakhan Man? Contemporary press accounts have a well-dressed man carrying a long parcel and acting in all manner of suspicious ways - accosting poor Sarah Lewis and friend; dashing through Mitre Square covered in blood etc. This man, if he was real, could be reasonably suspected of stalking prostitutes. Logically, if Astrakhan Man was one and the same, so could he. That's all.

If, as you think (correct me if I'm wrong) A-Man was really a Fenian sympathiser come to silence Mary Kelly, also a Fenian sympathiser, then of course he need not be stalking prostitutes at all. Other than Kelly, presumably.

As for Frank Millen, how similar? Sporting an Astrakhan coat was not particularly unusual (if uncommon on the streets of Whitechapel as 2am). Hutchinson's description is quite specific; I think Millen would have to fit very well to convince in the role. Generalities are not sufficient. Besides which, if a man was up to no good in the early hours of the morning in a decidedly dodgy area of town, I can't for the life of me think why he would choose to dress up in his finery?

Hello Richard, Sally. You may not have to wait much longer. The BBC genome project should be finished in a month or two. It should include ALL the "Radio Times."

So I understand. I'm sure that will be very interesting.

[Sally]

Sally:

"I think it is fair to say that the two witness accounts of MJK's movements that night do not tally very well.
On the one hand she was apparently extremely drunk at around midnight - consistent with returning from the pub after a night drinking.
On the other hand she was apparently no more than slightly tipsy when she was seen on the streets at 2am by Hutchinson."

There was actually a bright young lad who nailed the reason on the boards a year or so ago - Hutchinson saw Kelly on the day BEFORE as per Dew. This makes for a very good explanation to the sudden sobering up.

If only everybody could do that ... but never mind!

Yes, Fisherman, I remember how convinced the readership of this forum was by that contention. Boy, it certainly has changed history.

I'm not convinced - my perogative - and as such I can, and will, continue to think that the two witness accounts refer to the same night. I see absolutely no reason to think otherwise.