question about the woman that was staying with kelly?

[praline]

I can't seem to find the information about the prostitute that was supposed to be staying with Kelly that led up to Barnette and her in a fight.

Is there any info on her such as age? looks? Name? Was she interviewed and I am just missing finding it?

I am playing with a couple of ideas in my head and keep asking myself about this prostitute that was staying there.
Did she have a key? We know the window was broke but Kelly could have found the key or given (I will call her X for this post) her one.

Were any of X's personal items found in the room? One of the many things running through my head is the eye witness who saw Kelly the next morning. Could that have been the prostitute that was staying with Kelly? She could have seen the murdered body and helped herself to some new clothes and left. There are many cases of victim clothing being found by folks who were opportunistic rather then murders.

One of the other things I wonder is if X was a prostitute maybe she was JTR intended victim (as Kelly's age doesn't fit the MO of the other victims)
That while stalking X, Kelly did something to really humiliate JTR .. or angered him. I don't know how old X was however so not sure if I could even attempt to think in this direction.

So who is my prostitute X? Hoping this info is out there and I am just not looking in the right place.

[Phil H]

praline

Maria harvey is, I think, the woman you are looking for. (See A-Z latest edition p 201 ff).

She had left some garments (2 men's shirts, a boy's shirt, a black crepe bonnet, a child's petticoat, and man's overcoat) in the room, which were probably the one's burned. She also said she left a pawn ticket.

A prostitute named "Julia" (though probably NOT Julia Van Turney/Venturny) was also said to have stayed in 13 Miller's Ct. But it was Maria's clothing that appears to have been there at the time of the murder.

Hope this helps,

Phil

[praline]

Thanks Phil!

I should be able to find what I am looking for now that I have a name!

[Versa]

keep us updated please!!! I have always wondered about this Ms X and I'd love to hear anything more you have to find about her!

[DRoy]

Would Maria Harvey be calling herself Kate? I found this article from a New York paper...

[DRoy]

It continues with...

[Bridewell]

Hi DRoy

Do you have the rest of the text of that article? It would be interesting to see the context.

Regards, Bridewell.

[DRoy]

Hi Bridewell,

It is quite a large article and deals with lots of other things not related to this particular post. It is a very interesting read so I'll try to post it somewhere else in its entirety. It would be quite an undertaking to transcribe it!

Cheers
DRoy

[Chava]

Well if "Kate' and MJK were paying 2/6s a week for the privilege of renting #13 Millers Court, that would be news to their landlord Mr McCarthy. He says that MJK was 6 weeks behind on the rent when she died and according to him he sent his gofer round there to try and get some money out of her which was how the body was discovered.

[DRoy]

Chava,

I thought the same thing. So was MJK charging her friend and keeping the money? You'd think that the inspector interviewed in the article would know whether "Kate" was living there at the time or if she was making up the story.

DRoy

[DRoy]

I think Praline has given us more to think about than the original question as to who was staying with MJK. If you add the article and this "Kate" person to the story, it really opens up pandora's box.

If I may, I'd like to expand on Praline's comments/theories and present my own supposition (everyone's favorite word!).

Who is Insp. "Harris" in the article and is he reputable?
It must be Insp. Edmund Read and yes he reputable. Remembering that the article was written in Dec 1889, I'm sure his memory and knowledge of the crimes were as good as ever.

So if we can accept Insp. Harris' comments in the article then "Kate" was living with MJK.

So could "Kate" have been the one who Barnett called "a woman of bad character" that MJK allowed to move in which led to him moving out? Just because Maria Harvey had stayed with MJK a couple of random nights doesn't mean it was her that Barnett was talking about. Besides, why couldn't (and why wouldn't) MJK charge "Kate" for rent in order to catch up the rent she owed to McCarthy especially since Barnett wasn't working?

I think Praline is also on to something suggesting that Caroline Maxwell may have confused "Kate" and MJK. Caroline Maxwell says this to the Coroner about knowing Mary and Mary knowing her over the previous four months: "Oh, yes; by being about in the lodging house." Why would Mary be in a lodging house when she has her own place? However, we don't know where "Kate" was staying prior to living with MJK so perhaps she is who Caroline recognized in the lodging house.

I don't think the key is important as Abberline seemed content to accept Barnett's explanation that the key had been missing for some time. However, what should be considered is how many people knew how to unlock the door? Not the police, not Bowyer or McCarthy. MJK and Barnett for sure but what about "Kate"? As a roommate I would think so. Without a key, how did they lock the door? I think we have to assume the same way they unlocked it. The same three people would know how to lock it again. Since the door was locked after MJK being killed...

Is it possible that MJK was killed by her roomate? MJK would be comfortable with "Kate" her roommate which could explain some of the questions about how MJK was killed without making noise. In the alternative, if "Kate" didn't do it but was living with MJK then where was she the night of the murder? Perhaps she returned home to find MJK murdered and hence the cry of "Oh murder!" came from her.

I saw how receptive everyone was with the Lechmere/Cross threads due to so much supposition being tossed around. It is not my intent to create a new suspect; instead I am asking for assistance in either proving or disproving some of this thread's supposition.

Cheers,
DRoy

[Cogidubnus]

I assume you mean "How receptive everyone wasn't"...

All the best

Dave

[DRoy]

Dave,

Oops my mistake, thanks for the correction

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
I was just browsing through press reports, and noticed that the 'Evening Star'' Nov 10th mentioned that a certain young girl called Kate was sent to fetch beer for someone who lived opposite Kelly's room, she was described as having wisps of red hair.
Could this be the Kate that was staying with Mary Kelly, the same Kate that after the murder moved into room 13, who apparently described herself as ''identical ''to the murdered woman.
Again as stated , could this have been the person Maxwell saw, especially if they looked similar?
There is no mention of the beer fetcher Kate, but one would surmise it was of a certain age to obtain alcohol from premises.
Maxwell describes the dead woman''being about, in the lodging house'',and we cannot discount this, as there is a report from men in such places in Dorset street, of the dead woman, pleading poverty to pay her rent, and comments''It all went on booze''.
All speculative , but food for thought.
Regards Richard.

[DRoy]

Richard,

Try reading "A Theory - The access to Mary Kelly" in the General Discussion section. If you are interested in more discussion about Kate there are a few more posts on her. Of course, the thread gets hijacked and goes off course but still some interesting Kate stuff.

Cheers
DRoy