MJK--A Complete Artefact?

[The Bounder]

A few interesting points to add, there is the story that MJK's father tracked her down in London and she went into hiding, how did MJK know this if she was operating under an assumed name (which I also believe she was) and her father was asking for someone with a completely different name. Did Mr Kelly come to London asking for his daughter under her real name and MJK heard about this, or was he aware that MJK had taken on this new name, if so why didn't the family come forward when news broke of her murder. Could this mean the man wasn't really her father and she was in fear for another reason?

Also it has been mooted that MJK recieved letters, I believe if memory serves, at McCarthy's shop perportedly from her parents, again who were these letters addressed too? If they were addressed to MJK again this means that her parents may have been aware of her new name. If the letters were addressed to Kelly under her real name why did McCarthy or others who may have seen the letters not inform the police of this at the time of MJK's death, surely they must have know that the murder victim recieving letters under a different name would have been something the police would have been very interested in hearing. Again this could raise a third point, the letters might not have been from MJK's family or parents at all and if they weren't who were they from and what did the letters concern?

[ChrisGeorge]

So we know beyond doubt that JtR victims DID falsify their histories for various reasons - Stride even seems to have lived double (or even mutilple) lives as a con-woman. So why not Kelly - in which case, without corroboration, it is risky to take any part of her story (as retold by Barnett) as reliable.

Phil

Hi Phil

All I am saying is that the story about the husband being in the mine explosion, whether true or not, is apparently the story MJK told Joe Barnett, at least if we believe his account. Such a tale seems more reasonable to me than for us to make the jump to the idea that MJK was actually making a veiled reference to her supposed husband dying in a Fenian explosion. Such an idea really comes from left field, in my opinion. I entirely agree that if we allow for the parallel with Stride, it could be that a number of these women may have completely fabricated their backgrounds.

All the best

Chris

[Phil H]

Chris

I don't think there is much difference (or daylight as is sometimes said) between our views!

Phil

[Dr. John Watson]

For what it's worth: The 1871 Census for Portsmith, Hampshire, shows a Mary Jane Kelly, age 9, living with father John, 34; mother Elizabeth, 45, and two brothers, Michael, 13, and Henry, 7, all born in Ireland. They are listed among the military families at Cambridge Barracks, which housed the 14th Leicester's or 82nd Regiment. John Kelly is described as a private. Mary Jane reportedly said she had a brother Henry in the military, and this Henry would have been old enough to serve by 1888. At least some of what Mary Jane told friends in London was likely fictitous (I don't believe she was ever married or that she was ever in France, for instance) but considering her probable age, Irish background, brother in the military, I think the Mary Jane Kelly in this 1871 census is as close a match to the real thing that we're going to get.

John

[ChrisGeorge]

Very interesting, Watson. Thanks for posting that information.

Chris

[Dr. John Watson]

Very interesting, Watson. Thanks for posting that information.

Chris

Thank you Chris. I first posted this census record back in 2004 and nobody picked up on it. The thing is, of course, there's no way to confirm or refute any of these possibilities. So few facts are known about Mary Jane, that working back from her has proven futile. By starting at the other end and working forward one might be fortunate enough forge a provable connection, and if I had the time and resources, I'd start with this family!

[Cogidubnus]

Unashamedly giving this one a "bump", if for no other reason than to discover whether anybody ever followed up on the Portsmouth "Kelly" family, who, I must admit, rather appeal to me simply because they're just along the coast from my current home?

All the best

Dave

[Stephen Thomas]

Unashamedly giving this one a "bump", if for no other reason than to discover whether anybody ever followed up on the Portsmouth "Kelly" family, who, I must admit, rather appeal to me simply because they're just along the coast from my current home?

Has nobody checked the Isle of Man?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Has_Anybody_Here_Seen_Kelly%3F

[Bridewell]

Isle of Man

Has nobody checked the Isle of Man?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Has_Any..._Seen_Kelly%3F

I've seen the Isle of Man MJK. Never thought to check if she's still there in 1891. I'll give it a go tomorrow. Dave(or someone else), do you have access to Ancestry to chase up Portsmouth? Suspect Chris may have done both already, but who knows? I think, from memory, there was another possible in a military family based in the Channel Islands. We could be busy.

Regards, Bridewell

[Cogidubnus]

Sorry Bridewell

Our subscription to Ancestry expired recently and in our current impecunious state (I accept, a relative term - we're still far better off than many!) I can't really justify renewing it...else I certainly would've done more on this myself...I just wondered, as it was an old thread, whether someone else already had...oh well!

Dave

[Stephen Thomas]

I've seen the Isle of Man MJK. Never thought to check if she's still there in 1891.

I was only joking...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Xy4eDKTaQA

[Cogidubnus]

Petard, hoist etc ?

I suspected that Stephen, but I believe there was a genuine IOM possibility, (can't recall where I saw it though), to whom Bridewell has referred...

I'll leave you to explain that to him though!

All the best

Dave