MJK 1 Colour version - WARNING - GRAPHIC IMAGE

[Loublin]

Hello John.

Disturbing a grave is no small matter. As I've already mentioned, the reasons for doing so must meet a very high legal in order to be considered in a court of law. The reasons you have suggested do not meet this standard. The faces of the other victims don't resemble one another; what difference would it make it we found out that Mary didn't resemble any of the other victims either?

There is also such a thing as respect for the dead and respect for their personal faith traditions. Mary Kelly was a Catholic. I won't go into all the theological minutiae here, but it would require very compelling reasons, extensive legal hearings, arguments and counter-arguments, and a direct court order before the authorities at St. Patrick's would permit someone to disturb the grave of a deceased Catholic who had received the Christian Rite of Burial and been interred in sanctified ground within a Catholic cemetery.



Contrary to your impression, MANY people have labored for years and are still laboring in an effort to discover more biographical information about Mary Kelly. They are searching for records, a photograph, anything which will shed more light on her life. And not only because such information might lead to the identification of her killer, but because countless people feel genuine compassion for Mary as a fellow human being and believe that her personal story, whatever it may be, deserves to be told. The same is true of the other victims. If you had done your homework and endeavored to accurately inform yourself before attacking you would already know that this is true.

The passage of 148 years since Mary's birth, the fact that she spent her early years in Ireland and Wales, and the fact that she had the commonest female given name in the mid-late 19th C. (Mary) combined with two of the commonest surnames (Davies and Kelly) have obviously made this a difficult task. My own family comes from Ireland, and while doing genealogical research my father and I frequently encountered the sad truth that the little local parish Donegal or Mayo which held the hand-written 19th C. records had at some point suffered a fire, and all the records had been destroyed. There were no copies. If the parish register burned the records were simply gone.

Of course, there's another major hurdle to discovering documentary evidence relating to Mary Kelly's life- the fact that being involved in prostitution, Mary by necessity lived "under the radar". Dedicated researchers (many of whom are members of this forum) continue to hope and to search for more information about Mary. For obvious reasons it simply isn't possible for all of us to personally trawl through dusty written records in Limerick or Wales or London.

Many people have personal talents which are best applied to different veins of research.
-Perhaps you can take some time to consider what talents you yourself can contribute, John? Surely you have more to offer than just criticism?

Steve happens to have a talent for photographic enhancement, and he has kindly shared that talent with the rest of us. Like other contributors on this site, I feel that he deserves to be thanked for his efforts and contributions.

The tendency of some posters to meet the generous, completely free contributions of others with rudeness, personal insults, and even accusations of ghoulish and dishonorable intentions has driven too many fine researchers from this site- it has even driven them from this field. I find such behavior deplorable and I'm sick to death of it! It's worse than just "annoying"; it's selfish, stupid, and often personally hurtful to dedicated individuals.

Attack posts are destructive, both in the short term and in the long term. They bear bitter fruits that only damage our collective pursuit of History. I see them as being the opposite of what they typically pretend to be- they're actually insults to the memories of the victims. They're also insults to the shared hope that if we all exert ,there's at least the possibility that the victims might someday receive Justice.

Best regards,
Archaic

Though processes in photo development had greatly been improved by that time in history, to assume that the technology was at a point where people had albums of photos of themselves just lying around would be ridicules. The dry plate method of taking photos was still time consuming and costly and I don't think that discovering a photo of MJK would be as easy and a no brainier as one would think. George Eastman was still developing his camera designs and it still wouldn't be until the the 1900's that the camera for the everyday individual would be readily available.

[sdreid]

Wouldn't the red appear unrealistically too dark if you didn't back the contrast way off first? Good work!

[Jane Coram]

Hi All,

Well thanks for all the kind words; it's a bit like getting a sneak preview of my obituary.

I'm honestly not at all bothered by John's comments. I've had all sorts of comments from all and sundry for the last forty years and I'm still doing what I do. Lol.

Not that I have to defend myself, but I'd have to be the biggest kind of bleeding idiot going to put my stuff up on here stating that I had credentials as a reconstruction artist if I didn't, because any bugger could see at a glance whether or not I could actually do the job, or if I was bullshitting. It's not something you can bluff your way through.

Fact is, any work I've done stands on its own two feet, like it or lump it. John said he thought my paintings 'nice', which is not the worst comment I've ever had. I'm always happy to do any paintings or proper reconstruction work for anyone that's writing an article or book. They just have to ask and I never say no.

Really though, it's Steve's work that we should be talking about here, because it's exceptional. I use the same techniques for colouring up black and white photos and that is a superb job by anyone's standards. I sincerely doubt that I could match it.

Hopefully we can bring this thread back to its original intent and Steve's finished product will be up here before too long.

Hugs

Janie

[Archaic]

Hi Janie. I think your work is very nise too.

And I agree with what you've said about returning the focus of the thread to Steve's excellent work. Let's consider the previous subject closed.

Sorry if we scared the newbies. (You can come back now.)

Peace everyone.
Archaic

[Jane Coram]

Sorry, I forgot to say hello to Loublin in all the kafuffle. Welcome to the boards.
I hope I didn't miss anyone else that's just joined that's posted on this thread, but if I have, welcome to them too.

We aren't usually this proactive. I think it's the super moon that's done it. Lol.


Now we can get back on topic!

Hugs

Janie

xxx

[The Grave Maurice]

Well, that was fun. Now that Winsett's gone, let's get back to work.

[John Winsett]

Sorry maurice, still here. Jane, i like your attitude. I'm not normally combative but in this case i had to be. When Steve does a coloring it gives the impression he is an expert and what he is doing is accurate. This may be a nice try but its not.
A picture of annie chapman surfaced so why not Mary? Its possible. Just as the rest of the autopsy photos could surface.

[Loublin]

Hello Jane, and thank you all for your warm welcomes.
I don't think that it's isn't possable for a picture of MJK to be found. I just think with the year and the state of photography at that time, one shouldn't solely rely on there being one.

[Barnaby]

Wow, to me that resembles Sickert's style

On a more serious note: Some are arguing that such attempts are degrading to the victim/humanity and others are arguing that the value of such work is greater than any social harm it can cause. In my opinion, at some point (when - I don't know - but 120+ years seems sufficient), the harm to the victim's memory and family caused by any exploitation of the crime (not that I believe this is) are long past. The only potential harm here would be contributing to the societal desensitization to violence. And, in those terms, this is less explicit than video games rated appropriate for teenage play.

Mary Kelly was a real person who lived and died over a century ago. It would run contrary to societal norms to disparage her memory. But we can't hurt her, or anyone who cared for her. If someone can make a buck (and many have) off of her story, so be it. These "exploitations" of Mary actually have resulted in her achieving an immortality the vast majority of us will never have. While I'm sure she'd rather have lived and died anonymously, there remains a slim chance that efforts such as these will produce results that contribute to our historical understanding of the crime.

[richardnunweek]

Hi,
If any one holds the key to tracing desendants of Mary Kelly it was Fiona Kendall, albeit proberly through army records.
According to Fiona her great grandmother parcelled up Marys belongings and forwarded them on to MJKs brother, who apparently was concerned, that any leakage of his sister being the latest victim of the Ripper, may harm his prospects for army promotion.
Clearly this brother existed, and all we would need is his name and barracks address.
If fionas history is accurate, then it appears obvious why none of poor Marys Family attended her funeral.
One selfish brother, and shamed family members.
Regards Richard.
By the way , I dont find the colour interpretation disturbing, it really brings to life how sick JTR was.

[John Winsett]

If any one holds the key to tracing desendants of Mary Kelly it was Fiona Kendall, albeit probably through army records.

I didn't know that. Thanks for posting.

I don't think that it's isn't possible for a picture of MJK to be found. I just think with the year and the state of photography at that time, one shouldn't solely rely on there being one.

Hi Loublin, I'm not as big a jerk as you might expect. I'm no photo historian but since they do have surviving pics from years before 1888, I think the only thing stopping someone from finding a pic of MJK is that she may never have taken one. Anyway welcome to the boards.

And as this is a new day I want to say if I offended I apologize. I still don't agree with the accuracy of the colorization or the obsessiveness behind it but in the big scheme of things that doesn't really matter does it?

[Abby Normal]

Here's a preview of the MJK 1 photo I'm working on at the moment.
This is only a trial version image.

The excercise using colour helps to identify significant features of the injuries sustained
which may not be quite apparent in the original sepia image, especially if one is unable to,
or does not have the facilities to perform a suitable close-up image to study.

Briefly, two of the main points of interest in this cropped image are the
extensive injuries to the left arm, and the bloodstained top of the clothing (chemise) nearest
to where the neck would be.


Observations to left forearm.
In addition to the deep cuts to the outer forearm one can see that the fleshy part of the underside
of the arm has also been cut and pulled outwards into view.
The biceps muscle has also been cut out leaving an apparent hollow area.

Obs to top edge of the chemise.
The top of the chemise clothing indicates a blood dispersal pattern adjacent to the neck area
which one would assume being caused by the cutting of the neck.
This 'may' give a little insight as to how much blood came towards the operator depending on his
position to the body in this case, and perhaps what can be expected with the others in the C5 group.

*
It will take some time to produce a complete version but the results from my initial trial
seems promising regarding the clarification of detail for an easier study.
--------------

For the those interested:
The colour work I'm doing is far from complete as you can see.
The image I'm using is a 49mb tif, and all enhancements, most importantly, are non destructive.

The base image is enhanced first before any colour layers are applied.
No sharpening takes place at any stage!

The colours (still to be tweaked) are applied using multiple colour balance adjustment
layers in photoshop CS3.
Some layers are duplicates with different blend modes and % of opacities applied.
All work saved in PSD format.

Best
Steve

Hi sgh
I think this is good work and very informative. I had never seen this level of detail before and it made me notice a couple of things, maybe significant or not but I think so. 1. I can really see by the close up of her arm that In my opinion MK looks like she was not stout (thick), short or fat. Her arm(bone structure) appears to my eye to be that of a normal size, shaped woman maybe leaning toward actually taller and thinner. I could not really tell from previous pictures I have see. 2. The cuts to the arm are highlighted to reveal to me for the first time that the killer made one downward cut and then diagonal downward cuts off the first cut, creating upside down v pattern kind of like Eddowes. Why cut in a pattern like that?

Also, I think one can talk/work objectively about these horrible murders and still have deep respect and sympathy for the women. Since i have learned the details of their lives, it makes me think about them just as much about JtR(and all the mystery and romantasizing around him). When i think of Mary Kelly helping out other unfortunate women even given her tough circumstances it really makes me realize how good people can be, no matter how bad their situation.

[Loublin]

I completely agree with you, it would be a great find if she ever had one taken.

And I don't think your a jerk. I was just surprised at the time and effort put into this thread. But hey we all have feeling on certain subjects that we get passionate about.

[Wickerman]

....Why do it? Investigative teams use photographic techniques all the time of crime scene photos to try and find clues that have been overlooked. It's standard practice. In this instance, Steve has brought out details that might make a lot of difference in working out how Mary died and if she did, in fact, have defense wounds on her lower arms, or if they were mutilations. Important stuff I'd say.

Jane, your artwork over the years stands as testimony to your expertise and dedication.

Let me just ask you, & anyone who has expertise in the field. When looking at the posture of the body, the arch of the ribcage in relation to the position of her left shoulder. Does it not appear to you that her head is too far to the left, over her left shoulder?
It is very difficult to accurately reproduce a correct alignment for her spine taking referrence from the central pubic point between her legs, nevertheless it appears to me, and always has, that her head 'seem's' almost detached from her body.

I know, nothing is mentioned about her head being severed, except in one American News article, but, this is what the angle of the body/head suggests to me, which could be completely erroneous.

Regards, Jon S.

[Carol]

Hi Loublin!
Welcome to Casebook! I'm sorry your first landing on the site was a bit unnerving but as you get used to us you'll see that we are really good friends - on the whole!

I've just returned from a trip to 'Jane Coram's pics' thread and I think you will appreciate looking there yourself. Jane's work is absolutely amazing! (I only found out about Jane's work myself because I had a quick look on this thread yesterday).
Happy hunting,
Love
Carol