'V' shape cut on MJK's face - WARNING GRAPHIC IMAGES

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Phil. It may not be a question of carving, but slicing. What we're looking at might be defensive wounds.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

Hello Tom,

That "drawing" that resembles a pair of scissors.... defensive wounds? Surely not. I know you do like to jest and cajole sir, but please...

best wishes

Phil

[Sister Hyde]

Hi Phil. It may not be a question of carving, but slicing. What we're looking at might be defensive wounds.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

yeah that's what i meant by "a little blade drifting in the fire of the action", It's nice to get my crime-related vocabulary in english improved

[Tom_Wescott]

Hi Phil. I don't see a pair of scissors on her hand, sorry.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Archaic]

"One Arm Was Nearly Severed From The Trunk"- Daily News

Archaic points out the wounds on Mary's left arm. I think these closeups bring into sharp focus something I have always thought, that these are NOT defensive wounds as some have suggested, i.e. cuts made during the attack as she tried to shield herself. There is just too much flesh missing, clearly wounds inflicted after death and one of the many things the Ripper decided to do to the body for whatever twisted reasons had meaning to him.

Hello Kensei. That's a good point. I agree with you, and I just went looking for the newspaper report which mentioned that one of Mary's arms was nearly detached.

Here it is, The Daily News, 10 November 1888: "...while, in addition, one arm was almost severed from the trunk..."

I think Steve's enlargement of MJK-1 is an important contribution to our understanding of the depravities inflicted upon Mary Kelly.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Phil Carter]

Hi Phil. I don't see a pair of scissors on her hand, sorry.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hello Tom,

Nice try, but like I said, you couldnt wind up a clockwork toy. Better luck next time old bean :-)

best wishes

Phil

[Tom_Wescott]

You're delusional, Phil. If I say I don't see it, I don't see it. I'm not 'cajoling' you.

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

[Phil Carter]

Hello Tom,

I actually said "Scissor-like symbol" in posting No. 8 on this thread.. but as you wish to cast aspertions.. fine but pointless.

You make your own decision on what it is and tell me how the blazes those marks next to (or between forefinger and) the thumb are "defensive" cuts?..because just for you, and because it takes less time than for you to take a trip to Specsavers.. here's a blow up of the hand, from the enhanced photo provided by Steve. "Scissor-like" "drawn matchstick people-like"..call it what you will. They are deliberately put there. Unless of course Mary Jane Kelly knew how to self abuse with a very small, sharp blade whilst in the throws of defending off a maniac.

Oh.. maybe SHE drew them BEFORE her attack.. eh? Yeah right.

The photo is, and in my honest opinion, always has been, a fake. This is just one of the many examples of the silly, childish games played on Ripperologists.

best wishes

Phil

[sgh]

Hello Tom,

I actually said "Scissor-like symbol" in posting No. 8 on this thread.. but as you wish to cast aspertions.. fine but pointless.

You make your own decision on what it is and tell me how the blazes those marks next to (or between forefinger and) the thumb are "defensive" cuts?..because just for you, and because it takes less time than for you to take a trip to Specsavers.. here's a blow up of the hand, from the enhanced photo provided by Steve. "Scissor-like" "drawn matchstick people-like"..call it what you will. They are deliberately put there. Unless of course Mary Jane Kelly knew how to self abuse with a very small, sharp blade whilst in the throws of defending off a maniac.

Oh.. maybe SHE drew them BEFORE her attack.. eh? Yeah right.

The photo is, and in my honest opinion, always has been, a fake. This is just one of the many examples of the silly, childish games played on Ripperologists.

best wishes

Phil

Phil
With the greatest of respect would you kindly place your posts such as above in the 'fake photo' thread elsewhere on these boards where it can be discussed at length.
You are derailing my thread.

Thank You
Best
Steve

[Archaic]

re: Mary's Left Hand and Pinky-Finger

Hi Steve.

I'm looking at your photo in post #3 again and noticing more details.

Now we have a much better view of Mary's left hand, which the killer deliberately posed over the gaping cavity of her ravaged body.

Her left pinky-finger is clearly visible in your enhancement.

Again, excellent work!

Best regards,
Archaic

[sgh]

Hi Steve, good work. I believe what you identify as a 'v' in MJK1 is really a tuft of her hair. With Eddowes, you've missed 3 V's. As for the alleged 'faked' photo, could it not be a reverse of the negative making her left hand appear to be her right? Phil's blow up is interesting, and I see where he could get the Freemason insignia from it, but I don't believe it's a V cut at all, but a regular cut with a line of blood running down that gives the appearance of a V cut. However, look BEHIND the big cut on the hand and there's a smaller cut that actually looks like a V

Yours truly,

Tom Wescott

Hello and thank you Tom,
I have to disagree about the 'tuft of her hair' on MJK1. It is the larger 'V' I'm looking at, not the smaller looking line that looks like a V almost at a right angle to the main 'V' . Also, hair wouldn't remain at such an acute angle!

Regarding the Eddowes photo, I'm aware that I did not circle all the 'V' shape cuts for want of filling the picture with white circles.

If you don't mind Tom,
I've requested that fake photo discussions takes place on a different thread.

Thank You in advance for your understanding.

Best
Steve

[Phil Carter]

Hello Steve,

My sincerest apologies, as it was certainly not intended. I was answering Mr Wescott.
I will take no further part in this thread, as any discussion of any mark other than a legitimate V shape made with a knife cannot be considered. It is entirely obvious that from your excellent enhancement, those marks on MJK3 cannot have been made with a 6" knife. Therefore, the V marks you refer to in your original posting No.1 pertaining to the MJK3 photo are under question. The mark 1 inch away from that V mark pertains to the same enhancement.
That is, in my honest opinion Steve, worthy of a legitimate response. However, I again apologise.

I have made no comment upon either of the other two photographic enhancements, excellent though they are. Once again, thank you for providing them.

best wishes

Phil

PS and Edit. Archaic.. that left pinky, in posting three.. is bent, is it not?. It is straight (if it isn't a right thumb) in MJK3.

[Archaic]

Were Mary's Breasts Excised Right Through Her Chemise?

Regarding Steve's enlargement in Post #3 again, does it look to anybody else as though the killer might have removed her breasts right through her chemise?

The fabric would have been fairly sheer (and probably quite old, like the rest of her clothing) so it would have been very easy to cut through, especially with a knife sharp enough to remove her breasts.

I'm wondering because her chemise still covers her chest and there are huge circular bloody areas where the breasts were. They appear to be cavitous areas.

Of course it's possible that he pushed the chemise up further, excised her breasts, and pulled the chemise down again at some later point but this seems less likely to me.

Best regards,
Archaic

[Errata]

It would not surprise me in the slightest if there was a v shaped mark on her face. In fact I would imagine there are several, most however would have been obliterated by stripped the flesh over them.

I'm going to make a horrible comparison here, and I'm sorry for it. But if you want to see the easiest way to strip flesh from a face, or an arm, or any other part with a small amount of flesh over bone, watch a guy cut meat off of a spit. It's almost exactly like the gyro guy at the carving station. It starts with a v shaped cut, small sawing motions until momentum or a change in plane brings the knife out of the meat. Any time a cut was started but not finished, or any time the knife cut too deeply at first would result in a v shaped mark.

I just feel the need to apologize again for the meat on a spit analogy. I know it's awful.

[sgh]

Hi Steve.

I'm looking at your photo in post #3 again and noticing more details.

Now we have a much better view of Mary's left hand, which the killer deliberately posed over the gaping cavity of her ravaged body.

Her left pinky-finger is clearly visible in your enhancement.

Again, excellent work!

Best regards,
Archaic

Hi Archaic,
Yes, we can get a better understanding of the left hand and especially her left pinky - finger curled under slightly - the cause of confusion for many
when viewing the MJK3 photo thinking wrongly that it's her right thumb!

Many Thanks
Best
Steve