MKJ murder, NOT mjk?

[miss marple]

Richardnunweek,
You can invent any theory you like, but the facts have to fit. The facts are that MK was murdered before 6AM.
Not one witness had claimed that a completely drunk and incapable Mary and a companion entered Millers Court after 9am and that her bloody companion left Millers Court before her body was discovered at 10 .45.That's complete speculation.
The fact is that Mary was dead in her room.A man was heard leaving just before 6.
No murderer would be such a fool as to take a drunk and incapable woman into her room in broad daylight, with many witnesses , people coming and going, risk visitors etc, and leaving possibly bloodstained less than two hours later, just by chance missing Bowyer coming round. She could not have been murdered after 9AM as rigor mortis had set in, but then theories are a matter of belief not science.
The fierce fire and a candle would have given enough light for jack. I have had many fires and they give off a lot of light. We cannot compere the brightness of electric light with the dim light that Eastenders were used to functioning in.
Miss Matrple

[richardnunweek]

Hello Miss Marple.
I am not inventing a theory, I just dont have the opinion that you have.
I believe Maxwells account, I also to some degree believe Maurice Lewis.
I am not suggesting that kellys killer, took her along Dorset street, and into Millers court in Broad daylight, I believe she went ahead of her killer, to wait his arrival. hence the state of undress.
She would not have wanted being observed in daylight taking a randy client into the court, under prying eyes of many, including McCarthys shop, therefore the distance between, would have suited both parties.
The witness was not Maxwell, Chava
I will look up and see if I can find the Mitre square witness.
Regards Richard.

[Chava]

Sorry, I thought he was asking about Maxwell.

[Rubyretro]

Richard -I'm not going to reply to this again..but I did on your Maxwell thread ..which you haven't yet replied to.

[Fleetwood Mac]

Richardnunweek,
You can invent any theory you like, but the facts have to fit. The facts are that MK was murdered before 6AM.

Have to say MM....this is not a fact...probable yes but not a fact.

Based on what we know of rigor mortis.....and Bond's statement regarding the state of the body at 2.....then she could have been killed around 9-9.30am......stretching it certainly....but possible all the same.

No murderer would be such a fool as to take a drunk and incapable woman into her room in broad daylight, with many witnesses , people coming and going, risk visitors etc, and leaving possibly bloodstained less than two hours later, just by chance missing Bowyer coming round.

I would say it's unlikely....based on the attendant risks.

Unless of course he wasn't from the area......and believed he wouldn't be recognised even were he to be spotted leaving the room....and by the time the murder was discovered he's long gone. There are always other possibilities....however slim.

[Robert]

I think Shannon Christopher used to argue that if Kelly had been murdered earlier, the blood would have completely dried by the time of the discovery.

[richardnunweek]

Hi Robert,
I remember that also, and a valid point , we must never overlook 1888, compared with the 21st century.
To be honest the medical opinions of that period cant be considered, as a solid foundation for any serious T.O.D, or closure of any theories that may contradict those contempary beliefs.
Lets keep an open mind on medical opinons made, and try not to cast aside serious potential witnesses that may differ.
No police doctor of that period , could possibly determine when Mjk, was killed, without taking a guess , judged by local residents sightings, or hearings.
Regards Richard.

[Rubyretro]

[QUOTE]

To be honest the medical opinions of that period cant be consi

dered[/QUOTE,
Of course they can be considered ! Victorian doctors may not have had the expertise that we have today -but they already had alot of anterior experience; You can't dismiss them when they don't agree with your theory !

closure of any theories that may contradict those contempary beliefs.
Lets keep an open mind on medical opinons made, and try not to cast aside serious potential witnesses that may differ.
No police doctor of that period could possibly determine when Mjk, was killed, without taking a guess , judged by local residents sightings, or hearings.

In a choice between the doctors and the witnesses -I would choose the doctors. Infact when the witness statements disagree with the doctor -at least in the case of Hanbury -the Inquest chose to believe the witnesses above the doctor : I now believe that the doctor was more likely to have been right.
Doctors have impartial professional experience -the witnesses had no reason
to remark upon things before the events..and so they are very 'muddied' in
their recollections..or just plain mistaken.

Anyway, in the case of MJK, the most belevable witness statements support the doctors..it's YOUR theories that don't !

[claire]

Sorry, *which* particular witness statements support the doctors? All the statements I can think of would be perfectly compatible with a later time of death...your head's been turned, Rubyretro, by your obsession with 'Hutchinson.'