Still Confused on Kelly crime scene

[Mitch Rowe]

My thought was that possibly one of the dog handlers had told police not to touch anything JTR may have touched. If this were true it would be folly to touch the doorknob.
I believe that if dog handlers had arrived and taken a clean rag to wipe the door handle with that that would have been the best way to give the dogs the rippers scent.
Although there is no proof of this I think its possible. It would explain why no one wanted to touch the doorknob.

[claire]

Wasn't there some discussion about this a while ago and it was established that the police knew the dogs were no longer available (therefore, pointless trying to preserve evidence for dogs that would never come)? I seem to remember something along these lines...or was that simply proposed in the light of the evidence that the dogs had been discontinued?

[sdreid]

With just two north facing windows, I'm surprised that Bowyer could see much of anything.

[Vingle]

2) In looking at the photo of Millers Court the bottom right window looks to far to reasonably unlatch the door.

I don't post very often but this has interested me but I have nowhere near the knowledge of people on here. My feeling on this is that I think that the unlatching of the door in relation to the killer is only an issue if the killer entered the room whilst Kelly was asleep AND they did not have the missing key.

It would have been possible to do so if she were very drunk - but I only have my own drunkeness as evidence of what i can sleep through to make that comment (a firealarm, having water poured in my ear and the obligatory black marker moustache).

It seems a little different this killing to the others - an opportunistic approach of peeping through the window - JTR was finding women on the streets.

I think it more likely that;

• JTR was invited in and so locking the door on the way out was the only issue;
• had the missing key to let themselves in (this might not mean that it was someone well known to her - maybe a recent but previous client who paid well and bought her food too);
• or, this was not a JTR killing at all (McCarthy and Hutchison have some explaining to do in my opinion).

I think there is evidence which supports either of those, but less to say the killer let themeslves in by reaching through the window.

Vingle

[Rubyretro]

Vingle -if Hutch did it then he might have realised that Mary was very drunk, and he might have seen her reach through the window to open the door herself, and seen that he could do it also. He might have seen her go in all alone. He might have hung about for 3/4 of an hour to be sure that she was out cold before he risked entering the room by the same method..He might have seen that no one was coming up or down the road at that instant to surprise him at that minute...

And that doesn't mean that he didn't kill the others...

[Vingle]

Vingle -if Hutch did it then he might have realised that Mary was very drunk, and he might have seen her reach through the window to open the door herself, and seen that he could do it also. He might have seen her go in all alone. He might have hung about for 3/4 of an hour to be sure that she was out cold before he risked entering the room by the same method..He might have seen that no one was coming up or down the road at that instant to surprise him at that minute...

And that doesn't mean that he didn't kill the others...

Yes I suppose he could have and it is all very sensible when you write it like that. I have felt(no evidence) that this one was more personal than the others - i'm not really sure why other than the complete destruction. Maybe he really did know her and decided that if she wouldn't be with him she wouldn't be with anyone.

[Jane Coram]

Hi Gang,

I can probably clear up a couple of the other queries from a few posts back. It shows how empty my brain is to have stuff like this rumbling around in it!

We don't know the exact dimensions of Mary's room, because accounts differ, some giving it as 10ft x 12ft and some 12ft x 12ft, and several variations on that theme. It could be that some were estimating it to the front of the fireplace, and some into the alcove. It was pretty small though.

They didn't actually break down Mary's door. They simply levered open the lock, and probably quite carefully, so as not to do too much damage. McCarthy would simply have had to replace the lock after the event, which wouldn't be too bad a job.

It's quite possible that there was only one copy of the key, and that is the one that was lost. It might even be that if McCarthy had a spare, he just wasn't able to locate it that quickly, especially if he was anything like me.

Hugs

Janie

xxxx