Layout of Kelly's Room

[FutureM.D.]

I apologize as I'm sure this has been covered ad nauseum but I was looking for a visual layout of Mary Kelly's room and couldn't find one using the search function.

Can anyone help me out?

[Jane Coram]

Hi,

Give me a few minutes and I'll whack up what I've got. Just thought I'd post in as case someone had the same thought at the same time!

Hugs

Jane

xxxxx

[Jane Coram]

Hi,

Here you go, someone might have something else to add to it, but this should get you started.

If you imagine yourself standing at Mary's door and looking in, there was a bed on the right hand side and behind that the partitioning, where it was separated from the front part of number 26 at some time.

There was probably a washstand behind the bed, because it's shown in one newspaper sketch which seems fairly accurate. I've put two versions of that image up, because one is better quality that the other, but the poorer quality one shows the washstand at the back of the bed. Somone might have a better copy. Some sources put the washstand at the bottom of the bed as shown in the map. There was one in the room somewhere anyway!

There was a broken back chair at the foot of the bed that held Mary's clothes.

Opposite there was a fire place, with a small cupboard on the right hand side of it. To the left were the windows.

There were two tables in the room, one by the bed in front of the door, and another by the window. There was probably another wooden chair by the window somewhere.

The map shown there says that Mrs Prater lived over the top of Number 13.
There has been a lot of debate about this and it could well be that she was in the room over the front of number 26, so take that bit of the map with a pinch of salt.

Oh, the painting at the end is my reconstruction of the room. It's come out a bit small. I'm at present working on a better version of it.

Hope that helps.

Hugs

Jane

xxxxxx

[FutureM.D.]

Hi,

Give me a few minutes and I'll whack up what I've got. Just thought I'd post in as case someone had the same thought at the same time!

Hugs

Jane

xxxxx

Thank you Jane! My interest specifically (and where I'm still slightly confused) is where the window is in relation to the bed. I have read suspicions that Hutchinsons description of the killer was gained by seeing the killer in the act..

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Future M.D.!

If this could be the case, why didn't Hutchinson run to the nearest policeman right away?1

All the best
Jukka

[D.B.Wagstaff]

A few questions have popped into my head and I hope some of the more experienced riperologists can shed a little light on the subjects.

Given the layout of the room and the photographs of Mary Kelly's body, it looks to me as though the table by the bed was moved back toward the head of the bed where it possibly may have been partially against the door or at least close enough to have interfered with the door opening.

this raises several questions for me:

Does anybody know if the table was moved by investigators or the police photographers or were the photographs taken with the table located at the crime scene as they found it?

Could the table have interfered with the door opening if it were moved far enough back?

Is it possible Jack moved the table back for easier access to the victim or to, at least partially, barricade the door while he "worked"?

If the table was found in such a position that it did impede opening the door, is it possbile Jack could have left Mary Kelly's room by the window leaving the door locked?

[DanaeChantel]

Hello Future M.D.!

If this could be the case, why didn't Hutchinson run to the nearest policeman right away?1

All the best
Jukka

I was just thinking the same exact thing myself

Danae

[DanaeChantel]

I am in the process of reading Bruce Paley's book. In the book, he states that Hutchinson was a fraud and that he came forward four or five days after the MJK's inquest. They say he waited this long as if he would have come forward sooner, he would have been put on the stand and would probably have buckled under pressure and his lies and deceit would be discovered.

I believe I have read several places that when the door was broken in, (why they did this, I have no idea as supposedly Joe Barnett was there and could have shown them how to manipulate the latch through the window) also the landlord was there and HAD THE OTHER KEY, when the door was busted in, it hit the table as it was stated by the police and others there that the table was right next to or in front of the door.

I don't think Jack could have climbed through the windows as the broken window panes were not big enough for a man or really anyone to fit through.

[FutureM.D.]

Hello Future M.D.!

If this could be the case, why didn't Hutchinson run to the nearest policeman right away?1

All the best
Jukka

Why didn't someone help Kitty Genovese? Fear of self preservation?

I know it seems silly and perhaps I overstated myself saying "in the act" but perhaps a peeping tom? Before the actual murder began?

[D.B.Wagstaff]

It would be interesting to know how close the table was to the door when the police broke the door in.

Obviously, if Jack went out through the door, it must have been far enough forward to allow him open the door enough to slip out.

But - if the table flush up against the door, how did Jack get out?

Why was the door broken in by the police when McCarthy had the other key and Joe Barnett knew the latch could be released by reaching through the broken window pane? Was it because the table was in the way of the door?

Was Mary Kelly of the habit of pushing the table up against the door as a small measure of protection, knowing the door latch could be opened by reaching through the broken window?

Were the windows the type that could/could not be opened?

If any of the more experienced and enlightened among us can answer I'd sure appreciate it.

[Jane Coram]

Hi,

Most of this has been discussed over the years, so you're in good company with the questions.

Not sure where to start, but I'll just dive in. Sorry, long post, but there were a lot of questions!!

We can't actually be sure if any of the furniture was moved by the police or the photographers. There is no solid evidence one way or the other. You'll find a lot of different opinions on it. The police were on unfamiliar ground as far as procedure was concerned. From their point of view they didn't have forensics or DNA or even fingerprints to worry about, so it really wouldn't have mattered too much if they did move the furniture.

It may well be that they moved the table further up the bed because it was obscuring the injuries to Mary's lower body and the photographer wanted a clear shot across the bed.

The room was small, but not so small that Mary and Joe would need to have that table that far up the bed normally. The newspaper sketches make it look much bigger than it was, but there would still have been room for the table to be closer to the end of the bed, so that the door could open fully without banging into it. I'd be very surprised if it was customarily that close to the top of the bed.

It is possible that her killer moved it to give him more room. It might well have got in the way if he was kneeling on the bed, because his feet would possibly have kept hitting it.

When Thomas Bowyer looked through the window, he said that the first thing he saw was the pile on entrails on the table right in front of him, but it was possible to see over the top of it and get a full view of the bed and Mary.

As to the trick of opening the door through the window and why the police didn't do it. Again, unfortunately there is no definitive answer. It is possible that they just didn't want to put their arms through the window because, their sleeves would literally have dangled in the entrails on the table. I'm really not sure that I would want to put my arm through that window over the top of that. They might also have been worried about cutting themselves on the broken glass. It was much easier to lever open the door and give them instant and relatively unbloody entry.

Oh, right, the windows were sash windows, which meant that the window was actually divided into two halves, a top and bottom, which could both be opened upwards and downwards when a small catch was released. Unfortunately, the rope sashes on either side often snapped, and then if you lifted the bottom half it would crash down.

It would have been very possible for a man to climb in through the bottom half, if the window was unfastened, but quite often these windows were fixed with a nail so that they only opened a few inches to keep burglars out. It's extremely unlikely that Mary's killer went in and out that way, despite the newspaper sketches. He almost certainly just left through the door and dropped the catch as he left so that it locked behind him.

Just one last note. The door wasn't smashed open as is shown in newspaper sketches. The lock was just levered open, so that all McCarthy had to do was replace the lock.

Hugs

Jane

xxxxx

[D.B.Wagstaff]

Thanks, Jane, for some great information. As with everything else about the Ripper Murders, there are few definitive answers and even the answers create more questions.

Something keeps me gravitating back to the MJK murder. I keep thinking something isn't quite right with the murder scene, evidence, and witnesses. It's either the epitome of Jack's murderous desire or something altogether different was going on.

Unfortunately we will probably never know and the mystery is both intellectually challenging and frustrating.

[DanaeChantel]

I feel the same way D.B. Something with the murder scene "just isn't right". My thoughts exactly. The key, the door, her death, how long she was dead. What about the people who claimed to have seen her as late as 10:00 in the day. Any truth to any of that. The woman that claimed to have seen her in the street and said she vomited and was sick. What about that story and the woman that told it?

Everything is so vague. It seems almost everything is heresay. We can't go back and question the people as they are all dead and gone. All we have to go by are old stories, and old information. Some of which may be completely wrong.

[anna]

Hi both,

If you go to the victims section of our menu at the top left hand side of your screen,you can find a whole host of topics and discussions to look through concerning Mary's murder,including the sighting of Mary after her murder,and our thoughts as to whether it was correct or not...timings,etc..
ANNA.

[KTF]

This is my first post EVER!!! so please excuse me if someone has said this before. I have just been reading Walter Dew's account of the discovery of MJK's body from his book 'I Caught Crippen' (1938) He says ' There was a table just beneath the window. On the bed, which was drawn obliquely across the small room, was all that remained of a good-looking and buxom young woman.' The word 'obliquely' stands out for me. The bed was at an angle in the room, which hadn't yet been entered by any of the police and years after the event Dew still remembered this.