Walter Dew's comments on the Kelly murder

[Chris Scott]

In view of the comments in a recent thread on Thomas Bowyer I thought it might be worth posting some of Dew's comments on the Kelly murder.
The last two passages indicate that Dew identified the "blotchy faced man" as the Ripper.

[Chris Scott]

The following comments appeared in the press in the 1940s:

[Trevor Marriott]

Here we have another police officer in later years deciding to throw his hat into the Ripper ring.

He mentions the man seen with Kelly as having a beard. Hutchinson if to be believed stated he had a moustache.

Cox also stated the man had a moustache

How can so many police officers conflict with each other ?

Thank god for Major Smith he was the only one who got anyting right

[DVV]

At least Dew remembers the names of the witnesses. Not so bad.
He seems to imply that Hutch might have been confused... Hmmm...

Amitiés,
David

[Natalie Severn]

Here we have another police officer in later years deciding to throw his hat into the Ripper ring.

He mentions the man seen with Kelly as having a beard. Hutchinson if to be believed stated he had a moustache.

Cox also stated the man had a moustache

How can so many police officers conflict with each other ?

Thank god for Major Smith he was the only one who got anyting right

....and even he appears to have made a few things up here and there Trev!
But at least he was honest enough to admit that nobody ever knew who the ripper was-----or where he lived.....I admire him for saying that!

[Jonathan H]

So far as he knew, Natalie.

Littlechild was not saying that Tumblety was the Ripper. He was arguing that the American was a very likely suspect, the one who seemed to be the authentic, contemporaneous, dodgy doctor suspect, not Sims' 'Dr. D.' -- whom he had never heard of?

Macnaghten was indeed saying that he believed his preferred suspect was the fiend. But he admitted in his 1914 memoirs that the un-named Druitt was not known to the police -- any police -- at the time of the 1888 to 1891 investigation.

Again, how could Walter Dew know anything more about the un-named Druitt except what he read in Sims -- and that was heavily fictionalized?

[Trevor Marriott]

So far as he knew, Natalie.

Littlechild was not saying that Tumblety was the Ripper. He was arguing that the American was a very likely suspect, the one who seemed to be the authentic, contemporaneous, dodgy doctor suspect, not Sims' 'Dr. D.' -- whom he had never heard of?

Macnaghten was indeed saying that he believed his preferred suspect was the fiend. But he admitted in his 1914 memoirs that the un-named Druitt was not known to the police -- any police -- at the time of the 1888 to 1891 investigation.

Again, how could Walter Dew know anything more about the un-named Druitt except what he read in Sims -- and that was heavily fictionalized?

Jonathan

You seem obsessed with Druitt.

In 1888 when he committed suicide there would have been an inquest.In case you didnt know the information put before a coroner is compiled by the police after conducting whatever enquiries they see fit in an effor to establish the cause of death.

In the case of Druitt it was obvious from the outset that he had committed suicide in which case the verdict might have been "suicide whilst the balance of the mind was disturbed" I am sure if there had been any suggestion from the family at the time that Druitt was the Ripper or he could have been the Ripper as a result of other enquiries then it would have been relayed to the coroners officer and noted down somewhere or passed to the officers Investigating the Ripper murders, and more than likely mentioned at the inquest due to The Whitechapel murders having such a high profile.

It would appear that none of that was done so that in itself must cast a doubt about macgnahtens suggestion about Druitt.

It should also be noted that there were two other murders 1889/1891 which some including myself suggest that one or both may have been committed by a killer connected to the previous murders. If that be the case you cant blame Druitt can you ?

Or perhaps "You" can

[DVV]

Hi Trevor,

don't you think Sadler has killed Coles ?

Amitiés,
David

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi Trevor,

don't you think Sadler has killed Coles ?

Amitiés,
David

That is what has been suggested but personally I like to keep an open mind on all the unsolved murders outside of the canocial 5.

Remember Stride was killed with a different knife to that of the other victims and many still suggest she was a ripper victim. Coles was also killed with a different type of knife to Stride and the other 4 canocial victims.

Might suggest 3 different killers ?

I have seen this to many times on here whereby a person is either supected or maybe even arrested but never charged. Researchers seem to want to continue to suggest that person is guilty despite no evidence to support their claims.

To give a modern day example cast you mind back to 2006 and the Suffolk prostitute murders. The first person arrested was Tom Stephens he was at the time regarded as a prime suspect coming in contact with the some of the victims. he was interviewed and released pending further enquiries. While he was on bail he and almost everone else beleived he was the killer.

Thankfully a short time later Steve Smith the real killer was apprehended. Now if that had not happened then Stephens would have remained the suspect in everyones eyes unless of course modern day forensics would have eliminated hi.

I hope i have made a vaild point here

[DVV]

I see your point, Trevor, but wouldn't say there is no evidence against Sadler, far from it in fact.

Amitiés.

[Trevor Marriott]

I see your point, Trevor, but wouldn't say there is no evidence against Sadler, far from it in fact.

Amitiés.

Well it depends on what you deem to be evidence and what I deem to be evidence I guess.

Well if you would care to tell me what you believe to be evidence to suggest he was the killer and I will comment on it in from a professional perspective.

[DVV]

I've recently started a discussion (with a poll) about Sadler. Suffice to say here that Sadler's alibi and whereabouts that night are confused. Moreover, this violent drunkard had a motive.

Amitiés Trevor

[Trevor Marriott]

I've recently started a discussion (with a poll) about Sadler. Suffice to say here that Sadler's alibi and whereabouts that night are confused. Moreover, this violent drunkard had a motive.

Amitiés Trevor

They may be confused and it is accepted he was a violent drunkard but does that make him her killer ?

What would you say his motive was then ?

[DVV]

The beating/robbery in Thrawl Street, Trevor. Sadler told the police that he quarrelled with Coles, for he thought she might have helped him...

Quite strange...If I'm knocked down by men, I won't expect any help from a girl...right ? No reproach, at least...
The truth, I think, is that he thought Frances was involved in the ambush. Here is the real motive.

And the police wouldn't have suspected Sadler to be the Ripper, had they not been convinced that he was Coles murderer, don't you agree ?

Amitiés,
David

[Trevor Marriott]

Hi DVV

The beating/robbery in Thrawl Street, Trevor. Sadler told the police that he quarrelled with Coles, for he thought she might have helped him...

Quite strange...If I'm knocked down by men, I won't expect any help from a girl...right ? No reproach, at least... The truth, I think, is that he thought Frances was involved in the ambush. Here is the real motive.

B]Sorry to take the wind out of your sails but what you personally think is not evidence. If Sadler had thought that do you not think he would have mentioned it to her when he went to Spitalfield chambers. The keeper of the establishment was there and gave no evidence that Sadler was angry with her when he returned,[/B]

And the police wouldn't have suspected Sadler to be the Ripper, had they not been convinced that he was Coles murderer, don't you agree ?

But they were not convinced it was only natural that they interviewed him in connection with her murder especially as a witness stated that a man and a woman had been seen near to the murder site and the man looked like a ships fireman. and sadler happened to be a ships fireman. How a witness can tell the occupation of a man in the dark beats me unless of course ships firemen wore funny hats ! ?

Look at the timeline

1:45 AM: Frances bumps into fellow prostitute Ellen Callana on Commercial Street, passing "a violent man in a cheesecutter hat." Apparently, Ellen remembered the man as a former client who had given her a black eye and warned Frances not to entertain him, but she refused her friend's advice and solicited the man. Frances and the stranger headed toward the direction of the Minories.

1:50 AM: James Sadler got into his third brawl of the night with some dockworkers at St. Katharine Dock as he tried to force his way back onto the S.S. Fez, from which he had been discharged two days before. He was left bleeding from a rather sizable wound in the scalp after calling his attackers "dock rats." He then made two attempts to enter a lodging house in East Smithfield, but was refused.

2:00 AM: Sadler is seen drunken and bloodied on the pavement outside the Mint by a Sergeant Edwards. He was 'decidedly drunk' at the time.

2.15am Pc Thompson finds her body.

There is no evidence to suggest Coles and Sadler saw each other anymore that night.
Amitiés,
David