Photo of Mary Kelly?

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  • Observer
    Assistant Commissioner
    • Mar 2008
    • 3177

    #1

    Photo of Mary Kelly?

    Hi

    To be taken with a pinch of salt

    Imagine the scene three prostitues killed in Whitechapel in short succession, Turner Nichols, and Chapman. A photographer decides to go down to Whitechapel,(before there are none left!) and photograph some of the women for posteritys sake. Where does he go? Well I would have thought that Dorset Street, or Flower and Dean Street would be a good start. So off he goes to flower and Dean Street, and makes contact with a group of street women, and persuades them to pose for him. The resulting photo is this one

    thumb_Flower_DeanDosshouse.jpg



    thumb_dorset19thC.jpg

    Look at the big woman, the one seated with her back to camera in the Flower and Dean Street photo. Could this be Mary Kelly? She has her hair tied up, she's certainly the right build for Kelly, look at the woman in the shawl in the Flower and Dean photo, it would suggest that winter is approaching. But there's more, if you look at the photo of Dorset Street you'll see that the large woman appears again, this time standing in the street, she wears a white apron, also, the woman sitting smiling in the Flower and Dean photo, also appears in the Dorset Street photo again smiling at the camera it's obvious that these two women have followed the cameraman, either from Flower and Dean to Dorset, or from dorset to flower and Dean. To me, the smiling woman appears no more than 25, but no it can't be, does she look a bit like Kate Eddowes

    Observer
    Attached Files
  • Observer
    Assistant Commissioner
    • Mar 2008
    • 3177

    #2
    Could someone please enlarge the two photos please?

    PS The smiling woman has donned a hat in the Dorset Street photo

    Observer

    Comment

    • Mike Covell
      Superintendent
      • Feb 2008
      • 2957

      #3
      Hi Observer, as these are thumnails, increasing the size only results in pixellation, and the ladies look like big blocks!!

      I would suggest you either scan the images or if you have retrieved them from a website, post the link so the rest can look at them.

      Good luck
      Regards Mike

      Comment

      • Celesta
        Chief Inspector
        • Feb 2008
        • 1625

        #4
        These are classics, and I can't look at them without thinking of the victims. Interesting, speculations, Observer. I haven't met you before. Nice to meet you.

        Cheers,

        Celesta
        "What our ancestors would really be thinking, if they were alive today, is: "Why is it so dark in here?"" From Pyramids by Sir Terry Pratchett, a British National Treasure.

        __________________________________

        Comment

        • Jane Coram
          Detective
          • Feb 2008
          • 479

          #5
          I'm just digging the photos out to post up to save anyone else doing it. I'll only be a few minutes

          xxxxxx
          I'm not afraid of heights, swimming or love - just falling, drowning and rejection.

          Comment

          • Jane Coram
            Detective
            • Feb 2008
            • 479

            #6
            The one of Dorset Street is not a terribly good copy unfortunately, I don't know if anyone has a better one of it.......

            I have to say, that interesting though it is to speculate, when you consider the amount of women, especially prostitutes that lived in the area at the time, the odds of any of them being any of the victims is to several thousand to one. Even if one of them were photographed, the chances of us identifying them is zero really, and they generally dressed very much alike, and wore their hair very much alike, so with the best will in the world it's a non starter.

            They are great photos though and well worth another look. Sorry the quality isn't better.

            Jane

            xxxxx
            Attached Files
            I'm not afraid of heights, swimming or love - just falling, drowning and rejection.

            Comment

            • George Hutchinson
              Inspector
              • Feb 2008
              • 1089

              #7
              What is particularly fun is that they were both taken for George R Sims' 1901 epic LIVING LONDON, by which time all the women had been dead for 13 years.

              PHILIP
              Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd.

              Comment

              • Mike Covell
                Superintendent
                • Feb 2008
                • 2957

                #8
                Originally posted by George Hutchinson View Post
                What is particularly fun is that they were both taken for George R Sims' 1901 epic LIVING LONDON, by which time all the women had been dead for 13 years.

                PHILIP
                Ghosts Philip!!!!

                I love these pictures and it's good to see them bigger.
                When I tried to enlarge them earlier it looked like a stack of building blocks, is it possible they were working in one of the buildings and came out for respite?

                I am just wondering as to the similarity in dress.
                Regards Mike

                Comment

                • Dan Norder
                  Sergeant
                  • Feb 2008
                  • 852

                  #9
                  They're looking pretty lively for dead women.

                  Dan Norder
                  Ripper Notes: The International Journal for Ripper Studies
                  Web site: www.RipperNotes.com - Email: dannorder@gmail.com

                  Comment

                  • Graham
                    Assistant Commissioner
                    • Feb 2008
                    • 3813

                    #10
                    As soon as I saw these pix, and before I saw GH's post, I leapt to my keyboard to point out that the photos are not contemporary to the Ripper Crimes, interesting though they may be.

                    Why oh why do people get all sentimentally weepy about the woman we know as Mary Kelly? Or am I just a grumpy old bugger after all?

                    Cheers,

                    Graham
                    We are suffering from a plethora of surmise, conjecture and hypothesis. - Sherlock Holmes, The Adventure Of Silver Blaze

                    Comment

                    • mariag
                      Constable
                      • Feb 2008
                      • 79

                      #11
                      You may be a grumpy old bugger, but you're a right on the nose one.

                      The Mary Kelly as Romantic Heroine thing just never gets old!
                      Mags

                      Comment

                      • j.r-ahde
                        Inspector
                        • Feb 2008
                        • 1148

                        #12
                        Hello you all!

                        When trying to pick Mary Jane Kelly alive from a photo one must remember the following thing;

                        Being 5'7" (approximately 170 in centimeters), she could be at least rather well recognised!

                        Since she was almost as tall as an average man at the time!

                        All the best
                        Jukka
                        "When I know all about everything, I am old. And it's a very, very long way to go!"

                        Comment

                        • Blackkat
                          Detective
                          • Feb 2008
                          • 347

                          #13
                          I think it's sad that the romanticism goes on, maybe someday we'll actually get a picture and some answers and that "idea" of her will be laid to rest as well.

                          "Ghosts Philip!" <~ I had to laugh.
                          "Truth only reveals itself when one gives up all preconceived ideas. ~Shoseki

                          When one has one's hand full of truth it is not always wise to open it. ~French Proverb

                          Every truth passes through three stages before it is recognized. In the first, it is ridiculed, in the second it is opposed, in the third it is regarded as self-evident. ~Arthur Schopenhauer

                          Comment

                          • Brenda
                            Detective
                            • Feb 2008
                            • 389

                            #14
                            Are you trying to say that MJK didn't earn extra money as a runway model?

                            Comment

                            • George Hutchinson
                              Inspector
                              • Feb 2008
                              • 1089

                              #15
                              I thought she was a collier?

                              PHILIP
                              Tour guides do it loudly in front of a crowd.

                              Comment

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