Mary Kelly - Dismembered Leg?

[The Good Michael]

I will innocently whistle quietly to myself....

Innocent? You? Pull the other one.


Saint Michael

[Hamrammr]

Many thanks David.

The idea of an axe did seem to come from left field, just wanted to clear that up. Might look up Nick Warren's comments though.

Something about the MJK crime scene has always seemed to grab me more than the others, as though it is itself a puzzle within a puzzle and that perhaps making more sense of it (if this is possible) might yield something more about the greater mystery. Who can tell? Just out of interest (and for a bit of fun. . . gruesome fun), bearing in mind I'm a newbie, do you think the most likely reason for the attack on MJK being so frenzied and messy is:

a) A result of a natural escalation of violence when looking at the C5 murders as a complete unit.

b) A result of some deeper personal connection with MJK, and/or some great provocation of the killer by MJK on the night of her murder.

c) An attempt to eradicate some evidence on or near the body that may have pointed to the killer.

d) Simple madness/psychopathy.

e) Something else entirely.

f) Pointless to even theorise.

Apologies (huge ones) if this ground is now so heavily trodden that boots are now sticking in mud and people are being swallowed up to their wastes, but I am interested to know people's opinions.

Many thanks!

Dean V. Carter

[DVV]

Hi Dean, and welcome,

certainly a) escalation, and add to this the fact that he had more time.

But I personally think Mary wasn't a random victim, and that her murderer knew her very well. b) is thus very likely to me.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

Hello David!

There were some clues about an effort obducting her right arm, weren't there?!

All the best
Jukka

Hi Jukka,

abducting her right arm ?
What for ?
A ransom ?
Don't know about any such clues...
Can't figure him entering the VH with a right arm in the pocket...
Good for him that he changed his mind.

Amitiés,
David

[DVV]

I will innocently whistle quietly to myself....

Phil

Hi Phil,

"...and the birds were whistlin' in the trees,
while the wind was gently laughing..."

Blimey...that's an Irish song...!

Amitiés,
David

[Hamrammr]

Mary Kelly

Hi Dean, and welcome,

certainly a) escalation, and add to this the fact that he had more time.

But I personally think Mary wasn't a random victim, and that her murderer knew her very well. b) is thus very likely to me.

Amitiés,
David

Thanks very much David, makes perfect sense to me too. I know some hold with Hutchinson being the ripper, but I'm far more in favour of Barnett (until I get around to doing some proper research that is). Either way, it seems this was the opportunity Jack had been waiting for all that time. The perfect place, length of time and perhaps victim to carry out his masterpiece.

Then of course we come to the age old question of why he stopped. Did he do all he intended to, was he driven mad by this final (?) atrocious act, was he caught for some unrelated crime and imprisoned, did he move away etc etc etc. Personally I favour one of two options (based on hunch only I admit): He had satisfied his craving by completing his work/finally doing what he'd wanted to do from the beginning, or he had destroyed Mary Kelly for whatever reason, thus leaving him with no reason or desire to continue killing. This last option is open to a lot of question and is probably again biased by me having something against Joe Barnett.

D

[DVV]

Hi Dean,

I don't believe in Barnett's guilt - not for one moment (just my opinion).
On the contrary, what strikes me is the fact that Mary has been killed less than 10 days after Barnett moved out.

Amitiés,
David

[Hamrammr]

Hi Dean,

I don't believe in Barnett's guilt - not for one moment (just my opinion).
On the contrary, what strikes me is the fact that Mary has been killed less than 10 days after Barnett moved out.

Amitiés,
David

Ah yes, which in itself could be pretty indicative, if the killer was someone like the supernaturally observant Hutchinson who could see all the comings and goings around Dorset Street.

[Phil Carter]

Hello Mike,

As a new born babe. Sitting on top of a shiny new iceberg... LOL

best wishes

Phil

[Hunter]

Hello Dean,

I also would like to welcome you to these boards. From your previous post it is obvious that you have a good understanding of the case. If you would permit me, I would urge you to approach suspect based theories with caution. There are a lot of them and they all can't be right. Forwarding a particular suspect can create a bias when reviewing the evidence and has created friction when new information comes forth that may jeopadize the plausability of a particular suspect.

That Mary Kelly was killed just a few days after Barnett left is probably because she was now able to take clients back to her room- not that she may not have been doing that before as these men knew what their women were. But like the other victims, her business made her more vulnerable to the type of person that was commiting the murders.

[DVV]

That Mary Kelly was killed just a few days after Barnett left is probably because she was now able to take clients back to her room- not that she may not have been doing that before as these men knew what their women were. But like the other victims, her business made her more vulnerable to the type of person that was commiting the murders.

Hi Hunter,

I could agree...except that :

-no murder since the double event

-only murder indoors

-most mutilated victim

-probably JtR last murder - at least in a full "Ripper-style"

And since I don't believe Hutch (ie : I think she didn't venture out again after Blotchy), I think I have grounds to suggest that her murderer was someone she knew pretty well.
I've never heard of another possible Ripper victim butchered indoors.
The only case that can spring to my mind, although not properly a murder, is that of Ada Wilson in Feb 1888...and the suspect, incidentally, looked very much like Sailor Man, and sported a wideawake hat.

Mary's murder, even to those who do not favour any suspect, seems both a domestic affair and a Ripper killing, and I believe it's indeed both.

Amitiés,
David

[j.r-ahde]

Hello David!

Here it is, right from the report of doctor Bond:

"...The right arm was slightly abducted from the body and rested on the mattress. ..."

All the best
Jukka

[DVV]

Hi Jukka,

yes, I know this... but it has a different meaning altogether, hasn't it ?
It's a comparison to the left arm, said to be "close to the body".
At least, that's my poor lonesome provençal understanding...
I don't think it means an attempt to remove it.

Amitiés,
David

[j.r-ahde]

Hello David!

Yes, but I thought, that you meant abduction in general!

Never mind, us with broken English make things like these. And sometimes the naturally-born English speakers too!

Parhain terveisin (=Best regards in Finnish)
Jukka

[DVV]

Hi Jukka,

Broken leg and dismembered English...sont les mamelles du destin.

Amitiés,
David