Was Mary killed by a left handed man?

[Guest]

Hi folks,

To help answer the questions surrounding Mary Kelly's death as it relates to it being a Ripper crime, perhaps a satisfactory explanation for his likely use of a left hand, or ambidexterity.... (in the case of Mary Kelly, as the artery on her right side was severed first, when she was close to the partition wall, and the upper right corner of the bed),.... might help some of us who see serious drawbacks there for a right handed man. It would seem clumsy to have that attack commence from her left, while she is facing the wall, if the man is right handed, and particularly if the cut that leaves the arterial splash on the wall is on the right side of her neck.

I would be pleased if someone could take a run at this for me, so perhaps I can be part of the "Mary Killed by Jack Club" someday.

If this was Jack, can you see reasonable right handed answer, or do we have to expand our prior opinion of him to include his left hand as being perfectly capable also?

Thanks for any responses, my best regards.

[Sam Flynn]

It's all to do with leverage, Mike. It doesn't really matter whether Mary's killer used his right or left hand, he would have struggled to apply sufficient force to cut through the vessels on the left side of her neck unless he got on the partition-side of her. Being largely constrained to working from the left side of the bed, any attempt to cut the near side of Mary's neck (i.e. the left) would have entailed pushing the blade away from him, whichever hand he'd used.

[FrankO]

Hi Mike,

The way I see it, both (left and right) answers have their drawbacks, though nothing too serious. Where there's a will, there's a way, I'd say.

If he was left-handed, I think the easiest way for Kelly's killer to slit her throat with force and thus, without too much awkwardness, would have been while standing right beside the bed and bedside table. Putting his right hand over her mouth/face while leaning his upperbody in such a way that his head was more or less over her face, would give him the right angle to cut her throat with force.

If he was right-handed, I think the easiest way for her killer to forcefully slit her throat, would have been with his left knee beside her left shoulder. Putting his left hand over her mouth/face with his thumb pointing to her left ear while leaning his upperbody in such a way that his head was more or less over her face, would give the right angle and enough room below his left wrist to forcefully slit her throat.

If Kelly sustained the injuries her right hand in a very short-lived attempt to ward off her attacker, I think it would have been easier to get that hand out of his way with a free left hand (then quickly put it over her mouth and cut her throat) than with a free right hand.

Just my 2 cents of course.

All the best,
Frank

[perrymason]

Thoughtful responses Frank and Sam, I appreciate you sharing those thoughts. Ive wondered considering Mary upper right hand, close to the partition wall position when she is attacked, if the killer might not have been behind her, lying on the bed. He slips his right hand under her neck, puts that hand over her mouth, and reaches with his left hand holding the knife...while her right hand goes up in response to the hand over the mouth, and gets nicked while he puts the knife to her throat, under the right side of her chin, and pulls it towards himself forcefully.

I just think not only do we need to address the manner he used, but also the position of the deceased when first attacked...on the right hand side of the bed. Like it was being shared at the time.

Cheers Frank.

[Sam Flynn]

I just think not only do we need to address the manner he used, but also the position of the deceased when first attacked...on the right hand side of the bed. Like it was being shared at the time.

Not necessarily. The right side of her throat could easily have been slit by someone bending across the mattress from a standing position, perched on the left hand side of the bed, or straddling her.

[perrymason]

Not necessarily. The right side of her throat could easily have been slit by someone bending across the mattress from a standing position, perched on the left hand side of the bed, or straddling her.

Of course thats true Sam, but that still would be much easier if the killer was left handed wouldn't it? Unless he pushes the knife into her throat, rather than pulls it across, or back towards himself.

My best regards.

[FrankO]

Hi Michael,

Ive wondered considering Mary upper right hand, close to the partition wall position when she is attacked, if the killer might not have been behind her, lying on the bed. He slips his right hand under her neck, puts that hand over her mouth, and reaches with his left hand holding the knife...while her right hand goes up in response to the hand over the mouth, and gets nicked while he puts the knife to her throat, under the right side of her chin, and pulls it towards himself forcefully.

Although not an impossible scenario, the thing I would wonder about is this: if she almost completely undressed for bed, I would guess that he did something of the same. So, they lay down in bed, he waited for her to fall asleep and when he thought she was asleep, he reached for his knife. But where would that have been?

If it was lying beside him on the bedside table, it would mean that he needed to have put it there before turning in. Obviously, we don’t know the relation between her and her killer (whoever he was), but wouldn’t that have come across as very odd to MJK?

If it wasn’t lying beside him, it would mean that he needed to have gotten out of bed to go fetch it. But then, why would he slip into bed again and reposition himself beside or behind her like you suggested, etc.? That wouldn’t make sense, because he could have attacked her from the standing position suggested by Gareth. In fact, that would have been the most logical approach. Or so it seems to me.

All the best,
Frank

[perrymason]

Hi Frank,

In my minds eye I see that pose of Marys just prior to her attack as one might expect when wakened a 3 or 4am with a thick head from drinking too much...she see him come in, or lets him in, then climbs back into bed while she expects he will do the same after undressing, so she shoves over to the right side...and tries to go back to sleep. If he lays beside her before undressing, his knife could be in his hand or his belt, and easy to slip out for a left handed man...since his right shoulder might have been touching her back.

She starts to doze again, he rolls in behind her spoon style, slips his right hand under her pillow and guides his right hand to her mouth while his left has taken out the knife. He grabs her mouth...she startles and reflexively brings up her right hand, being right handed likely, and it gets cut while the killer tries to get the blade to her throat. He lifts her chin by pushing on her mouth, and .....

The Ripper cut womens throats when they were lying down and unable to struggle... or scream....that means some method of cutting off their air first.

My best regards.

[Tron]

What kind of weapon did the killer use? If he used a knife then slashing cuts should not be a problem with either hand. If the killer was behind her it seems logical to use the left hand as the right hand could not cut right to left.

However, it is important to control the victim prior to killing her so my theory is that he was on top of her just before making his move. This is based on my assumption that she was not aware the killer was present until the time she was basically attacked and died shortly thereafter.

If she was facing the wall/door, the killer would pull up the knife from her right side using his left hand. If he momentarily moved her on her back, he could have initiated the move with his right hand and then turn her over while cutting (reverse grip of the weapon).

Alternatively, he could have turned her on her back and then cut with the left hand while pushing the head against the knife with the right. This would allow for a more silent killing if he or she was concerned.

Laying on her back the killer would be able to choose his or her hand freely so we can't be sure. If she was facing the windows, a downward cut with the right hand would be very simple.

All this theory only applies if we assume that she was incapacitated and the killer used a knife. Curved weapons would behave slightly different.

[FrankO]

Hi Michael,

The picture you paint above suggests someone - not a punter - who was used to dropping by at that time of night and spending the remainder of the night without them talking much. The lack of any direct cause for rage suggests premeditation, which means that he expected her to let him in without a problem and would let him into her bed without much of a problem. There's the first 'problem' I see with this scenario, because who would fit the bill here? I doubt if Barnett would. Because, for instance, if this had been 'normal procedure', why were they still living apart? And even though there could have been such a person, there's no evidence to support any other candidate.

Then, if she invited him into bed staying the remainder of the night without much of a problem, it seems a little odd for Barnett or someone alike to go kill her as this invitation would mean she allowed him back into her life, or so it could seem.

Also, I still don't see why the killer would first get into bed, rolling in behind her spoon style, before striking. I see that as rather unpractical, clumsy and constructed. If she had been lying under the blankets close to the wooden partition, she simply had no way to go. If he wanted to kill her anyway, he could quite easily just get on top of her while she was trying to get back to sleep, put his hand over her mouth or whatever and further do as he pleased. To me, that would seem the more practical way.

Another thing I see is that your scenario doesn't explain the presence of several abrasions on her right hand.

These are the reasons why I don't see this scenario as a very likely one.

All the best,
Frank

[NOV9]

left or right

The killer may have been Ambidextrous.