Mary Jane Kelly's Alias(es)?

[Graham]

I just came across a website all about Stepney, London (www.lineone.net/Stepney) and contained therein is some information about JtR. What made me sit and look is the following:

"Mary Jane Kelly was also known as Mary Jane O'Brien and she was born in August 1865 in Limerick".

The site really isn't that special, but this is the first time I have noted the name "O'Brien" linked with MJK (unless, that is, I've either not noticed it or have led a sheltered life...)

Does anyone have anything to add?

Cheers,

Graham

[CraigInTwinCities]

I got a "site not found" error on that link, Graham.

Anyway, it sounds like someone SWAGing, if you ask me. No one's figured out for at least 100 years who the real MJK was...

[CraigInTwinCities]

OK, I have found the source of this MJ O'Brien/MJK biz...

It's all linked to that "Ripper and the Royals" conspiracy nonsense, as well as that tall tale about MJK sending a postcard to a Canadian relative AFTER she was murdered.

Tripe, but here are some helpful links for those interested:

http://ripperexpert.spaces.live.com/Blog/cns!3DDCF1E06DA4D1CC!157.entry

http://ripperexpert.spaces.live.com/blog/cns!3DDCF1E06DA4D1CC!186.entry

Anyone got an idea how reliable a source Karen Trenouth is? If she's into the Royal Conspiracy, that makes her shakey at best in my book...

OK... she's THAT Karen Trenouth... author of Jack the Ripper: The Satanic Team and Epihnany of Jack the Ripper... two of the worst-reviewed books on the case, ever.

That settles that...

[Tron]

My eyes!!!
Craig, next time you link to a web site causing eye cancer, at least provide some sort of warning...

[Dan Norder]

Anyone got an idea how reliable a source Karen Trenouth is?

Well, when she writes glowing reviews of her own books (which she has to pay a vanity press to publish for her) she doesn't even put her own name down correctly, which should say everything you need to know about her reliability.

[Graham]

Craig,

Strange, but I couldn't link back onto that Stepney website either....

Like Tron, I thought my brain was on the point of exploding - who the hell in their right mind places red text on a blue background? Or was it blue text on a - oh, bugger it. It was a piece of Trenouthism anyway, so who cares?

My interest in the Ripper goes back to 1959, and between then and now the aspects of the case guaranteed to lose my interest instantly are The Ripper and the Bloody Royals and Walter Sickert.

Let's draw a veil over this, eh?

Cheers,

Graham

[perrymason]

Hello all,

I think it was worth exploring Graham, so thanks for offering it up. Is'nt it the case that Mary was known by another name, or names, though? Ive always found the names Catherine Eddowes uses her last 24 hours or so fascinating as well.

Hard to know what the most frequently used version of "John/Jane Smith" was during that period of Victorian London.

My best regards.

[Graham]

Hello all,

I think it was worth exploring Graham, so thanks for offering it up. Is'nt it the case that Mary was known by another name, or names, though? Ive always found the names Catherine Eddowes uses her last 24 hours or so fascinating as well.

Hard to know what the most frequently used version of "John/Jane Smith" was during that period of Victorian London.

My best regards.

Hi PM,

I've often said that the name 'Kelly' runs through the Ripper Case like a lietmotif.

Cheers,

Graham

[perrymason]

Hi Graham,

You are quite right, perhaps there is my answer...how many of them actually were Kelly's though...seems the assumption of a new surname at that time was not any huge undertaking.

My best Graham.

[Graham]

Hi Graham,

You are quite right, perhaps there is my answer...how many of them actually were Kelly's though...seems the assumption of a new surname at that time was not any huge undertaking.

My best Graham.

Yes, back in the days when there was no social security, no drivers licenses, no passports, no need for any 'official' i.d. at all, I guess you could call yourself whatever you liked. And in a district which had a large Irish population, if you called yourself 'Kelly' you could probably just fade into the background. But I believe that MJK did use at least one other name - am I right in thinking that 'Laurence' was one? And that Joe Barnett sometimes used the name 'Kelly' himself'?

My God, it's a mire out there...

Cheers,

Graham

[steje73]

Freemasons run this site? No wonder 'certain suspects' get debunked...
And Illuminati? Cool! Can I have a job? I'm prepared to fetch the tea and put the chairs on the desks at the end of the day.
Actually, maybe this is why I got an unexpected minor pay rise last week. See, it pays to write rubbish on here!

[mikey559]

The name Kelly

Even today in Ireland, if you have a name that's associated with negative press, you just use the name Kelly and eeryone accepts you. I'm sure it was much more common in those days when you didn't have to come up with documentation to back it up. One thing that we need to remember, the Irish stick up for the Irish. Period. We all know that there is a theory regarding a Jewish suspect and a Jewish witness not wanting to testify against him. In my experience, the Irish are tighter than the Jews. Using the name Kelly signified that you were Irish and if that wasn't your real name you could count on the other Irish to keep their mouth shut, which is why I believe we know so little about Mary Kelly today.

Mikey

[CraigInTwinCities]

"The Trenouth is out there..."

[CraigInTwinCities]

The Trenouth about Mary Jane Kelly...

Found in the long-lost Scotland Yard files thought lost in WWII and the bombing of Britian, comes this:

[document appears to be a deposition between Inspector Abberline and Sir William Gull, incomplete and therefore joined "in progress" ... this is the only fragment to survive]

Sir William Gull: You want answers?

Inspector Abberline: I think I'm entitled.

Sir William Gull: You want answers?

Inspector Abberline: I want the Trenouth.

Sir William Gull: You can't handle the Trenouth! Son, we live in a world that has whores, and those whores have to be killed by men with knives. Whose gonna do it? You? You, Sgt. Thick? I have a greater responsibility than you could possibly fathom.

You weep for Mary Kelly, and you curse the royals. You have that luxury. You have the luxury of not knowing what I know.

That Kelly's death, while tragic, probably saved lives. And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, saves lives.

You don't want the Trenouth because deep down in places you don't talk about at parties, you want me in that flat, you need me in that flat.

We use words like honor, code, loyalty. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent defending something. You use them as a punchline.

I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the blanket of the very freedom that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it.

I would rather you just said thank you, and went on your way. Otherwise, I suggest you pick up a weapon, and stand a post.

Either way, I don't give a damn what you think you are entitled to.

[transcript ends here]

[Debra A]

the name Kelly and pawning

I really should make notes and source these things when I come across them, but I didn't sadly....but I did read in a contemporary account that the surname Kelly was the most popularly used surname in London when it came to pawning items, not because there were so many of them about who needed to pawn stuff, just because it was the name to use when you didn't want to give your real one.