State of mind of Killer

[JTRSickert]

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum but I'm real glad to be here..

I just wanted to start this thread just to get some insights into what you all think was going through the killer's mind as he was hacking and cutting up MJK's body..If you've read the graphic novel or seen the film "From Hell," it depicts him as hallucinating or talking to himself.

I just don't see how a normal person can function after doing what he did to her. Also, what do you think was done with the heart? Let me know your feedback.

[dixon9]

also new to forum,the thing i really cant understand about MJK killing(and killers state of mind)is did the 'suspect' who was seen entering the room with MJK sit through all that singing(before killing her)or did someone else commit the murder later on?

On the heart issue tbh i havn't any idea,but they are a really friendly helpful bunch on here and i am sure someone more knowledgeable than me will help.

[kensei]

Hi there. Here's some clarification for newcomers- The suspect Mary sang for is commonly known here by the nickname "Blotchy Face" and was seen entering her room with her at around 11:45 p.m., presumably still there at 1 a.m. when she was heard still singing. Witness George Hutchinson said he then saw her at 2 a.m. meeting another man, known by the nickname "Mr. Astrakan," the fancily-dressed man who went back to her room with her and is most commonly thought to be the last person seen with her before her murder.

The killer's state of mind as he did what he did to her? I think it must have been like a mad symphony in his head, his ultimate expression of all the dark motivations that drove him, what he had wanted to do to all his victims but never had the privacy and the time before. I also tend to imagine him as being at least partly undressed as he did it, both to avoid bloodstains and for sexual gratification. What did he do with the heart? Same thing he did with his other trophies- took them home and kept them hidden for some period of time.

[dixon9]

thanks kensei

[JTRSickert]

Well ,here is another thing to consider? Does anytone think the killer was psychopathic or psychotic?

For those that don't understand the difference, a psychopath has no conscious. He knows what he is doing is wrong, but he does it anyway to satisfy his own desires, regardless of whether or not it may hurt someone else. THese people have no regard for others and are considerably anti-social.

A psychotic is not really in control of his own actions. He suffers from some severe form of mental illness, possibly some form of schizophrenia. THe subject may have both auditory and visual hallucinations and suffer from delusions of persecution or grandeur. They don't understand the concept of "right" or "wrong." While most tend to be benign, there are some who have be characterized as violent and can committ acts of harm onto others (i.e. Ripper suspect "David Cohen")


Any thought as to which should be applied to the killer of MJK and the others?

[kensei]

If one or the other, I'd vote psychopathic. The Ripper was able to approach the women as a client and convince them to come with him. A literal raving lunatic could not have done that.

[karensa]

New too but would like to jump on in....and drown in information overload but eh.

I just don't see how a normal person can function after doing what he did to her.

A normal person didn't do what he did to her. No doubt. Ripper had some serious issues. I feel from what I've read here though that a lot of assumptions are being made one direction, so I'd like to toss a different one out here for consideration...

The Ripper was able to approach the women as a client and convince them to come with him.

Are you sure that the ripper was the one convincing these women to go anywhere? It is common for the working girls to hype up the wares and lure them in. Ripper could've been the "shy one" as these various profiles seem to suggest all the time - being uncomfortable with women, feeling inadequate, not standing out.

I want to point out a slightly different perspective - let's look at the dynamic between men and women and the mating game. Most all men are scared of, intimidated by or feeling inadequate around most women; even the skanky "rode hard" sorts are still capable of making guys (in their league that is) all nervous about the two things that tend to noid out most males: initial approach and performance.

If these victims weren't believed to have been sexually assaulted, then we can discount the performance anxiety (she laughed and said he sucks, and he flips, etc), so look at the initial approach.

Regardless of how a guy feels about prostitutes, he'll never get around the reality she's female and is equally capable of rejecting him, regardless of his money. If a prostitute rejects a man, well, that'll surely be a huge blow to his ego...if he can't get a hooker, he must be pretty useless as a male.

If Ripper is supposed to be uncomfortable around women, he's not going to just suddenly gain 9 kinds of confidence just because a woman is a prostitute, human nature doesn't work like that. Her occupation isn't going to override her gender, which is the part he'd be threatened by. Going after hookers isn't because he got cocky and confident, but more because of access and opportunity - outside whatever Freudian thing the females seemed to trigger for him.

If Ripper is uncomfortable with women, it's much more likely he was just as uncomfortable with hookers...so it may have been these women who lured and baited him, while initially he was reluctant. What if their deaths came about from cajoling this shy sort, insecure, easily threatened sort and once he relented and went with them, whether they had sex or not, he perceived some interaction as rejection. Panic, helplessness, confusion, etc and if he's impulsive and disorganized (and he was), he could have just snapped in the moment, become irrational and gone off. Once he crossed the line, he probably wasn't "thinking" much at all, he was probably caught up in the indulgence and release of it all, just "losing himself in it" and then at some point the juice settles down and he's conscious of what he's doing, with conscience....and bolts.

That whole psychological meltdown would be reinforced. Think about what Dahmer said - he knew it was wrong, he knew he had something wrong, but when this rose up, he couldn't help it...it'd take over. It wasn't demons or all that nonsense. It was, however, just bigger than him and he lost control of it. Outside the dinner and decapitation, Dahmer was a pretty swell dude. Ripper could've been this same way....

Seems most people just assume because of the brutality that Ripper is a predator. Maybe Ripper felt he was the one being victimized and in his mind, unleashing the rage on these women was defense, rather than sadistic glee.

Just an alternative opinion

[lynn cates]

avoiding temptation

Hello Karen. Not a bad alternative view.

Of course, one could argue that, although such a person couldn't help himself, he could at least refrain from carrying a knife or knives so as to avoid temptation.

The best.
LC

[karensa]

He could, if the knives had anything to do with his unleashing one way or the other...as in causally. The knife or knives wouldn't be the trigger or the threat though. Something about the victims or his interactions with them triggered it.

Carrying knives wasn't that uncommon - just protection and utility. In my own humble opinion, I'd wager the ripper never made any connection between what erupted in him and his carrying of knives as a potential trigger at all...anymore than Dahmer associated his decapitations with having a power drill laying around the house because in either case, and any other, the weapon has zero connection to the temptation, it doesn't cause it or trigger it anymore than the fork made Rosie O'Donnel suddenly want to eat pound cake.

[lynn cates]

trigger

Hello Karen. I wasn't suggesting that the knives were a trigger. I am merely suggesting that, as the alcoholic avoids the first bit of drink, so "Jack" might consider NOT carrying a knife.

Cheers.
LC

[karensa]

I know

My question is this - say he decides to leave the knife home and go grab a hooker and same thing happens.

Is he going to go, "Well, dang...I left my knife at home so I can't mutilate you this time" or would the weapon be less relevant and he'd find something else while he's "having a fit" or however it played out for him?

Leaving it at home won't prevent anything if the inclination to kill jumps up. He'd just find something else.

[karensa]

PS

Can you or someone around clarify or clear up the deal with her name? I see Mary Jane Kelly and have for years, but tonight I saw the photo archive here and it (headstone) reads Marie Jenette (sp)...is that someone else or what's up there?

Confused

[richardnunweek]

Hello Karensa,
Mary Kelly was buried under the name of Marie Jennette Kelly , and her death certificate included aka Davis, because that was the name that her common law husband Joseph Barnett called her as a term of affection between them brought about by her alleged trip to Paris at one time.
The surname Davis was once again 'allegedly' the name of her husband apparently killed in a mine explosion some years previous.
We unfortunately cant be certain of anything when it comes to Mary kelly of Millers court.
Regards Richard.

[Nell Lance]

I presume the Ripper was a psychopath/sociopath. He likely was a loner without friends/aquaintances.
I believe that the Ripper was impotent and that the knife was a phallic symbol. Being that some of the C5 were allegedly drunk, the Ripper took advantage of their defenseless state. I don't believe there would've been conversation or propositions put forth. His psychosis likely started at an early age. He probably heard tales of the Burke and Hare crimes and other bloody crimes from hawkers of the day.
Is it possible the Ripper imitated the crimes of Burke and Hare and started mutilating corpses before his crime spree?

Nell Lance