Source of MJK's fantasies?

[Bob Hinton]

Sitting alone contemplating my navel the other day a thought battered it’s way to the front of my brain (such as it is).

The stories that Mary Kelly told Barnett about her background bear an uncanny resemblance to the stories told by Mary Baker aka Princess Caraboo.

Both tell tales of going to France, both claim a husband who was no longer with them; both talk about leaving clothes with a landlady they once lodged with. Both tell of spending time in a hospital and then in a refuge for fallen women.

Both originated outside of London and yet both ended up there, and both seemed to weave a mystical web about them.

The Princess Caraboo story made the papers again in 1865 when Mary Baker died.

Comments?

[Jane Welland]

Hi Bob

Did Mary Baker/Wilcox also claim to be French at one point? I think I read that somewhere. There do seem to be a number of parallels, now you mention it.

Jane x

[j.r-ahde]

Hello Bob!

Yes, MJK could have adopted the story and made it into a more down-to-earth version to suit her purposes...

Princess Caraboo story is very interesting indeed, thank you a lot for presenting it!

All the best
Jukka

[Sam Flynn]

Interesting to note the Bristol connection to the "Princess Caraboo" story, and to reflect on what I discovered quite a while back...

Did Kelly run away to the circus?

There is a 17 year-old "Mary Ballina", born in Cardiff, visiting an address housing what appears to be a troupe of strolling players in Bristol in the 1881 England Census. Her occupation is given as "Actress/Comedian".

Some unverified stories stated that Kelly was an artist of no mean degree - but there's no indication which of the "arts" was meant. There are also the rumours of connections with the stage, and Mary's fondness for singing Irish songs.

There's also Barnett's comment about the gentleman taking Kelly to France and her "not liking the part". I've always taken this to mean "the part" of France where she ended up, but could it possibly mean that she was lured there with a promise of a "part" on the stage?

Note that "Mary Ballina" was almost certainly a stage name - she doesn't crop up in any other census, and the surname is also unique in Britain as far as I've been able to ascertain.

There is a village called Ballina located some 20 miles from the city of Limerick.

[Graham]

Hi Bob,

Fascinating stuff! I've always had a feeling that the little that's known about Kelly suggests a possible theatrical background. Also I've always felt that her tale about being taken to France wasn't all fiction. But who knows? Maybe she did build a legend for herself around Princess Caraboo.

Hi Sam,

I Googled 'Ballina' and found several references to it as a surname both in Britain and Australia.

ATB,

Graham

[Sam Flynn]

I Googled 'Ballina' and found several references to it as a surname both in Britain and Australia.

Thanks for the info, Graham. I've Googled it as well, and have found place-names aplenty, but not too many surnames - hundreds, maybe low thousands, worldwide. My point is that you'll not find it too often in the UK Census - in fact, "Mary Ballina" is the only "Ballina" in any of the British censuses up to, and including, 1901, and that in an England census. None in Cardiff/Wales, where she was born - at any time, it seems.

[Graham]

Hi Sam,

as far as I can tell I suppose the original Ballina is a small village near Limerick - and that Southern Irish rarity an Anglican parish. Didn't MJK say she was born in Limerick?

With regard to the supposed Bristol connection, someone whose name I can't remember referred to a tradition that MJK had a daughter, Agnes, who lived in Bristol.

I also had a shufti at Limerick City's website, just for the craque, and amongst other things saw what the Irish pay in car-tax! And WE complain?????

Cheers,

Graham

[Sam Flynn]

as far as I can tell I suppose the original Ballina is a small village near Limerick - and that Southern Irish rarity an Anglican parish. Didn't MJK say she was born in Limerick?

Indeed, Graham.

With regard to the supposed Bristol connection, someone whose name I can't remember referred to a tradition that MJK had a daughter, Agnes, who lived in Bristol.

It was Allen E Jones (I looked that up in an old post of yours ). Chris Scott tried pinning down this Agnes (Mary), but I can't recall whether it went any further.

[Graham]

Hi Sam,

It was Allen E Jones (I looked that up in an old post of yours ). Chris Scott tried pinning down this Agnes (Mary), but I can't recall whether it went any further

.

Ah, I have my uses! The full entry in the A-Z is:

"ALLEN E. JONES Researcher. Contributed piece to Ripperana, noting oral tradition in Cardiff that Agnes Mary (1881-1942), daughter of Mary Jane Kelly, lived there until 1908, whereafter she moved to Bristol. A small sample of Mr Jones's indefatigable studies."

I for one would like to see more of this gent's studies. How on earth was he able to pin-point Agnes Mary's life-span if he didn't obtain this information from someone who either knew her or knew her history? Or was he, like so many others, the victim of confusion, given the very common name of Kelly? Does anyone have that particular piece from Ripperana?

If MJK did have a daughter, then where was this 7-year old child in 1888? (Maybe too obvious a question...)

I have a vague memory of Chris Scott's posting on the old boards, but I'm afraid I can remember no details.

Cheers,

Graham

[Bob Hinton]

Princess Caraboo

I'm posting a couple of pictures of the Princess. The coloured one is when she was still fooling the people and appears very regal and exotic. The engraving is after she confessed to the hoax. Can I detect a mischievous smile around the lips and eyes?

[Scott Nelson]

From Ripperana, no. 12, 1995, p. 11 by Allen Jones:

"My own research into Agnes Mary Kelly, of 69 Allerton Street, Cardiff, who apparently believed that her mother, Mary, was murdered in Miller's Court, show that Agnes was born on 9 August 1881 at Fox Lane, Bristol (according to the 1881 census)."

Earlier from Ripperana, no. 10, 1994, p. 17 by Allen Jones:

"A family oral tradition claims that Mary Kelly's daughter, Agnes Mary (1881 - 1942) was quite well known in the Cardiff area. She married in November 1908 at Cardiff registry office and lived with her husband in Allerton Street until 1913 when he died, falling from his ship at Liverpool. Agnes died in the workhouse infirmary at Fishponds, Bristol. In 1881 her mother (Mary) was an inmate of the 'Mary Carpenter Home for Working Girls' at 10 Bishop Street, which was run by the brother of the famous Samuel Augustus Barnett of St. Judes, Whitechapel, who became the Dean of Bristol Cathedral and Westminster Cathedral."

[Graham]

Thanks for that, Scott. Extremely interesting, yes?

1] I wonder how Allen Jones first 'discovered' Agnes.

2] were there workhouses still in existence in 1942?

3] was Samuel Augustus Barnett any relation to Joseph Barnett?

Cheers,

Graham